# The SBHonline Community Daily > Restaurants Wine & Food Off The Island >  >  With Holiday Season Entertaining Upon Us...

## cassidain

Click attachment "+" for larger image, Andy   :Wink:

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## JEK

The finger foods reminds of our last time in Paris. Devouring an over-priced club sandwich in the lobby bar of the hotel. Noticed all the locals were using knife and fork and deconstructing their sandwiches into fork-sized portions. Saves on napkins.

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## MIke R

thankfully..Christmas  out in the country is a little less formal.....

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## andynap

> thankfully..Christmas  out in the country is a little less formal.....




Here too- that takes up a lot of room on the table.

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## JEK

That's the way to do it too, Andy.

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## Voosh

Since remembering which utensil is for what and that handwashing the good china and silverware (since it's a no-no to run them through the dishwasher) is a pain, I vote for paper plates, plastic utensils and finger food. Chopsticks, optional. After all, it's about the food and great company.

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## Jeanette

Asparagus while seated at a dining table is considered finger food? The things you learn on this forum...

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## Voosh

It's all relative. One year I was up north with a "big name" around here. We're just yammering and shoveling food any way we please. Suddenly, he looks around and says "Geez, we must be real slobs. All these lumberjacks are using knives and forks." We did ask for extra (paper) napkins and kept on yammering and laughing. Nobody spotted our gaffe and we had cordial conversations with many there. They still let me in and give me a free first beer. And, when they have live music and it's crowded, I go behind the bar and listen to the music. My price? I have to follow co-owners instructions on who to hand drinks to - after he says "You did wash your hands. Right?" I love it. Situational eating ethics and protocol.

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## JEK

Depends how one is dressed. IMHO.

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## amyb

Things remain the same-exact table setting in my Girl Scout Handbook 1953 or so.

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## Voosh

Profiling. 

I would get laughed out of some really "fancy" places "up north" or SBH if I wore a tux or great suit. Last week we had dinner with some SBH friends. I had long hair and a beard (all gone now for the holidays) wearing a "lumberjack" shirt, Levis and tennies. Maitre'D simply asked "Usual table?" "Merci, certainment. Good to see you again." We had a great dinner and service.

Although, one of our SBH friends did say (nobody pulls punches in our crowd) that I looked raggedy as hell. "I got dressing advice from Tom Waits for this gig I had to do." I did clean up as soon as it was feasible. 

Yesterday I had to deal with an old Motown music friend - "Man! Where do you get your threads? That tailor must be goood. Nice shoes. Who's your barber? That's a custom holster for your Glock, right?" Ya can't judge a book by its cover. IMHO. 


 :Wink:   :)  





Ooops. I mentioned a gun again. Unfortunately, a necessary evil to this day. I hope...

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## MIke R

just not into all that formal who hah...

place cards???...really???

sit wherever the hell you want ..I dont care


please....

we put out the holiday tablecloth....the holiday plates....cook up some *great* food...put out some wine....and mangia, mangia, mangia!!!!

I tell my  potential guests "you want formal?...better go somewhere else.....you want food  so good you wont forget it?...with a ton of laughs in a truly relaxing atmosphere?...come on over   and have a seat...anywhere you like is fine"....oh and while you're  up..throw another log on the fire please"

just like when I was a kid growing up




your mileage may vary

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## Voosh

Yep. 

I walk around barefoot in this cold weather. 

Find YOUR comfort zone and enjoy.

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## cassidain

A couple of good tips included also on elegant dining style:

Tear bite-sized pieces of bread to be buttered and eaten one at a time.
For knife and spoon desserts, the fork is for pushing and the spoon for eating.

Of course, only if you care about elegance. :)

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## Voosh

Elegance has never been at the top of my priority list. Never got me kicked out of some froo-froo places. 

 :Wink:   :p

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## JEK

We had one of these around for the little ones.

 


My parents didn't graduate from college and were brought up as farm kids, but they set a beautiful table for special meals.

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## Voosh

Some years ago we were dining at Rules in London with some high-totin' company (Yes, I was dressed appropriately.) Waiter whispers in my ear "Sir, you are using the wrong fork." I whisper "I know. I know. But, it's what works for me. Can y'all forgive me?" "Of course, Sir." He got one heck of a tip from us as some sneered at my barbarian ways and I got a darned good (free) glass of a really nice VSOP. 

Respect. Be honest.

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## Grey

I love using the good china and stemware.  But since it is usually me who ends up staying up late to handwash each item it doesn't happen very often.

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## Dennis

Riedel glasses are known not only for their taste-enhancing capabilities, but also for their exquisite design. Keep them in tip top shape by following these tips for washing your glasses.

You will be happily surprised to know that all Riedel glassware is dishwasher safe, keeping a few precautions in mind:
 - You should not overcrowd your dishwasher so that glassware is banging against other items.
 - Some modern day dishwashers come with a stemware rack, if yours does you should utilize it.
 - Remove glassware after the final rinse cycle. If left in during the dry cycle, residue in the steam will redeposit on the glasses.

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## Voosh

We have found that our old Waterford crystal survives quite well when following those instructions. One less moment handwashing at the kitchen sink. 

I suppose it depends on the dishwashing gizmo. We have a really cool KitchenAid one.

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## MIke R

having been a Riedel, Baccarat, and Waterford dealer  in my Colorado shop...I had a bunch of leftover inventory when we closed up to come back east...some of which is ( still ) selling on EBay...some of which we kept.....anyway we toss it all in the dishwasher and forget about it...and 4 years later it doesnt look any different than the day we took them out of the box.....

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## sbhlvr

We are pretty casual but for holidays I like to use the good stuff. I'm also glad that I was taught the proper ways for those "just in case situations". One thing that I think is rude, wearing a hat to the dinner table when you're a guest! Niece's h.s. boyfriend got a fail grade from me at our meet & greet dinner...just my opinion.

As my mom said.."it can never hurt to be over dressed". of course these are the parents that sent me to ballroom dancing and etiquette classes in elementry school! lol

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## Grey

> Riedel glasses are known not only for their taste-enhancing capabilities, but also for their exquisite design. Keep them in tip top shape by following these tips for washing your glasses.
> 
> You will be happily surprised to know that all Riedel glassware is dishwasher safe, keeping a few precautions in mind:
>  - You should not overcrowd your dishwasher so that glassware is banging against other items.
>  - Some modern day dishwashers come with a stemware rack, if yours does you should utilize it.
>  - Remove glassware after the final rinse cycle. If left in during the dry cycle, residue in the steam will redeposit on the glasses.



This is good to know but I still don't think I'm going to risk it with my Riedels.

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## amyb

Nor I, Kristen. Only hand washing for my Waterford and Edinburgh crystal stemware as well.

The Wedgewood china gets loaded in the dishwasher with careful and thoughtful stacking aforehand..

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## Dennis

LOL...I actually haven't done it either but have been tempted.

God knows I've broken enough of them trying to wash them in the sink!

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## MIke R

Im tellin you...fire away...mine look no different...shiny and new....and they go through the whole cycle....and when  I was selling them many of my customers said the same thing....

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## JEK

Riedels, Waterford crystal and great grandmas's china -- all in the dishwasher!

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## MIke R

amen........no muss no fuss....done


havent lost a piece ever

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## amyb

GASP!

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## Dorocke

That looks like the 5 o'clock position to me on "finished" which is what I always thought it was for placement.  It'd be a little odd and difficult to place utensils up in the 11 o'clock.  (Yes, I am interested in this hoity-toity stuff!)

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## Petri

Luckily I don't know what Waterford, Edinburgh or Wedgewood are :)


How to use knife, fork and spoon and how to leave them on the plate are basic skills applied to every meal.

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## amyb

Wedgewood is fine porcelain china-Josiah Wedgewood was the founder. The blue with white cameo like designs on serving pieces and knick knacks was known as Jasperware- was very popular gift items.

The other two are fine stemware and crystal manufacturers. Products of Ireland and Scotland.

This is what women of a certain age yearned for as their tableware

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## KaraBrooks

We only used Riedel in the restaurant and it ALWAYS went through the dishwasher and still does in our house.  I tried to bring a few glasses and champagne flutes to Paris via a Riedel carrier (but one glass broke).  Bob has broken more trying to wash by hand.  Wash in the dish machine -- we have never broken one.  Drying - that is another story.  End of the day -- it is not that expensive but MY does it improve the wine experience!  Sante!!

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## Grey

> amen........no muss no fuss....done
> 
> 
> havent lost a piece ever



I'm afraid my dear husband would attempt to help and load them in the dishwasher on top of one another.

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## amyb

OK, Kara. This year I am trying the dishwasher for my stemware.

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## Dennis

> We only used Riedel in the restaurant and it ALWAYS went through the dishwasher and still does in our house.  I tried to bring a few glasses and champagne flutes to Paris via a Riedel carrier (but one glass broke).  Bob has broken more trying to wash by hand.  Wash in the dish machine -- we have never broken one.  Drying - that is another story.  End of the day -- it is not that expensive but MY does it improve the wine experience!  Sante!!




Good to hear from a pro!

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## Voosh

Kara, 

Good to see ya here hope all is well.  

I can appreciate the dangers of handwashing of crystal. Kathy never forgets to "ding" me about the little chip in one of our goblets that I introduced. The dishwasher on "china" setting with plenty of spacing saves me from that grief now. Since we are creatures of habit, we have extensively expanded our supply of Waterford Lismore that we got as a "starter kit" when we married all those years ago. 

Clink. Clink.  :)

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## Petri

Thanks for the background :)

We support local when it comes to the tableware..  most a very classic scandinavian design from the 50's:

_.. is the classic expression of essential design thinking, with each object derived from the basic forms: circle, square or rectangle. As Kaj Franck [the designer] put it, Colour is the only decoration needed._

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## KaraBrooks

Just to be clear - this is Riedel not really fancy crystal that I advocate for the dish machine.  That said - my advice for the nice stuff -- keep the boys with the big hands away from it!

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## JEK

Hi Kara!

Susie and I were just talking about a neighbor who forbids her sister-in-law to hand wash crystal in her house -- breakage.  Life is too short not to use the crystal and then let who every wants to wash, wash it with vigor.  After all, almost any pattern made in the last 75 years can be replaced. IMHO.

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## andynap

Hi Kara- nice to see your voice. I wash everything in the dishwasher but I do put it on Air Dry.

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## MIke R

> Originally Posted by Kara Brooks
> 
> We only used Riedel in the restaurant and it ALWAYS went through the dishwasher and still does in our house.  I tried to bring a few glasses and champagne flutes to Paris via a Riedel carrier (but one glass broke).  Bob has broken more trying to wash by hand.  Wash in the dish machine -- we have never broken one.  Drying - that is another story.  End of the day -- it is not that expensive but MY does it improve the wine experience!  Sante!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear from a pro!





like I said...





thanks for having my back Kara....  :thumb up:

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## MIke R

> Originally Posted by Mike R
> 
> amen........no muss no fuss....done
> 
> 
> havent lost a piece ever
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid my dear husband would attempt to help and load them in the dishwasher on top of one another.



not my department...I cook...so after dinner the only thing I load is my ass in the recliner....LOL...everyone else cleans up

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## JEK

You need a "back" for dishwasher cred? Amazing, IMHO.

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## MIke R

> You need a "back" for dishwasher cred? Amazing, IMHO.




 I dont _need_ anything....just appreciated her concurring with me....her being a professional and  all.... thats all

and it was tongue in cheek anyway...

sorry for not putting a laughing face next to it which would have clarified my tone

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## Rosemary

Amy wrote of women yearning... the perfect word.  My mother and aunts yearned for both Waterford and Wedgewood.  Each addition was cherished. They washed them one by one with such joy.  We now have their beautiful Wedgewood plates and Waterford glasses that our girls now wash and dry.  Poignant. And delightful.  Onward to another generation.

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## MIke R

> Amy wrote of women yearning... the perfect word.  My mother and aunts yearned for both Waterford and Wedgewood.  Each addition was cherished. They washed them one by one with such joy.  We now have their beautiful Wedgewood plates and Waterford glasses that our girls now wash and dry.  Poignant. And delightful.  Onward to another generation.



absolutely.... my most cherished family heirloom is my great grandfathers  hand coffee grinder from Sicily....I have some cordial glasses and assorted items, but my sister got the majority of stuff..as it should be....

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## katva

> Luckily I don't know what Waterford, Edinburgh or Wedgewood are :)
> 
> 
> How to use knife, fork and spoon and how to leave them on the plate are basic skills applied to every meal.



Agree!!!!!
I only care about my champagne flutes......my parents have all the very fancy crystal and porcelain and it's sort of sentimental to me......but I have "been there,  done that" with the table settings.  Still...the champagne doesn't taste right in the cheap glassware.  IMHO

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## KevinS

Katva,

I agree on the champagne, but I beg one exception.  Champagne tastes pretty good straight out of the bottle on a beach in SBH...

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## amyb

And Kevin speaks from experience and with authority.

Rosita turned me on to champagne-and I say Merci beau coup to her!


There is nothing like gazing at bubbles bouncing around in the reflected lights in the flute as well my beloved's eyes..

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## katva

OK, I agree, Kevin!  Now that I think about it, the bubbly tastes good in ANY sort of vessel on SBH!

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## Jeanette

Am I the only one who has well water? I have run wine glasses through my dishwasher that have lost some of their clarity after a number of washes. I am forced to wash wine glasses by hand (daily) and breakage occurs throughout the year.

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## Dennis

> I am forced to wash wine glasses by hand (daily)




 :thumb up:

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## katva

My parents are on well water, and live directly on the shore (Chesepeake Bay)---their water is so soft, and despite having an amazing dishwasher, the glasses cloud up terribly.  Crystal, forget it.  All get hand washed.  They put a reverse osmosis thing at the main sink for drinking, coffee, etc., and washing the good stuff.  Where we live, we have very hard (town) water, and so we soften the water---seems to be fine for everything in the dishwasher.

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## Voosh

Does the clouding happen even if you use a rinse aid like "Jet Dry?" 

Also, since we experimented over time, some dishwasher soaps can be really nasty on glass (like a sandstorm.) Using the "china" setting with Cascade, water softener and Jet Dry work for us here and "up north" with well water.

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## JEK

We installed a Míele ten years ago and it the best dishwasher we have ever owned. Even has it's own softener built into the unit.

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## MIke R

I have two artesian wells...one 275 feet down...one at 335....we run the water through a sediment filter and then a charcoal filter as it enters the house, and it is as pristine as is possible....no spots, no cloudiness nothing at all...plus our Bosch dishwasher has an inline softener and filter which if you change it every 6 months assures the water going into the dishwasher is good no matter what....plus we run an empty cycle with a gallon of white vinegar every so often which really helps

never an issue...everything sparkles

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## katva

Mike---we also have a Bosch, and it's not so good!  I want to try the vinegar---how do you add it?  Just pour it into the dishwasher?  We spent a lot of dough on the thing, and I have been very disappointed.

My parents have a Miele---and it's AMAZING.

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## MIke R

I love my Bosch..have two of them...house and ski condo...very quiet...no service calls..everything clean as a whistle..hums right along

yes dump the white vinegar in..close the door...run a  short cycle..done..really freshens up everything nicely...especially the inside of the outlet pipes which you cannot really get to

and now I am waiting for all the feminine hygiene jokes to fly!....  :Big Grin:

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## Voosh

Yeah, I forgot to mention the semi-annual vinegar routine. An ounce of prevention... We also soak faucet and shower heads in vinegar and then brush them off with a spare toothbrush every year or so. No need to buy fancy concoctions, plain ole vinegar (some bleach down your drains every so often is also a lot cheaper and more effective than most drain cleaning goops.)Amazing the crud buildup, even with city water. 

Also, regularly check the bottom of dishwasher for lingering crap that can ding the heck out of almost anything. 

Our KitchenAid has served us well over the last 12 years.

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## sbhlvr

> That looks like the 5 o'clock position to me on "finished" which is what I always thought it was for placement.  It'd be a little odd and difficult to place utensils up in the 11 o'clock.  (Yes, I am interested in this hoity-toity stuff!)




I think what they mean by the 11 o'clock, is that the fork and knife are side by side on the plate.

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## JEK

They mean that the two are pointing toward 11:00. iMHO.

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## Voosh

Eating fish can be interesting in Europe. They give you two forks and, the experienced, strip the fish and eat poifectly with both forks in hand. Never mastered that one. Never caught too much flak for just using one fork, either. 

Since we're on this topic and NCIS was mentioned in another thread: One of my favorite "eating" scenes on NCIS is when DiNozo shows up at Gibb's house as he's grilling a steak in the fireplace. "Ya want one too?" "Yeah sure, boss." They both sit down, pull out their pocket knives and cut up the steaks and use the knives as forks.

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## MIke R

we have a grill insert for our fireplace...food, especially steaks, come out fantastic....there is something very good about wood fired food

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## Voosh

Anything cooked on real wood is great. I also consider most food to be finger food. They still let me into some tasty restos.   :Wink:   :p

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## Voosh

"Up north" we use a wood stove. Once ya get the hang of it, works well. 

I have often made up a batch of chili on that wood stove. Final step - open fire outside, slightly closed pot with plenty of breathing and some aluminum foil loosely covering pot and plenty of seasoned cherry and apple wood. A nice spin on a classic.

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## MIke R

I've done a lot of cooking on top of the wood stove....nice way for stews and soups.... years ago when I was a kid commercial fishing we would cook a pot of chili  on top of the coal stove on the boat.....looking back it had to be pretty crazy to be 100 miles offshore in the winter, in a wooden boat with a coal stove cranking  on high.....LOL

in my current house the wood stove is down stairs in the family room and the fireplace is upstairs by the kitchen/living room - so I dont do it anymore

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## Rosemary

One of those things that made perfect sense at the time...

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## Voosh

Who needs a crockpot when ya have a perfectly good wood stove? 

Yep. Being on choppy waters can be a cooking challenge. So what! Ya do it and look forward to a belly full of whatever ya concocted. 

[Disclaimer: Still here to talk about it and never missed a meal.] 


 :Wink:   :)

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