# The SBHonline Community Daily > Digerati Discussions! >  >  APPLE WINS SAMSUNG LOOSES

## BBT

By Jessica E. Vascellaro
SAN JOSE, Calif. (MarketWatch)  A federal court jury delivered a big win Friday to Apple Inc., finding that Samsung Electronics Co. infringed six Apple patents and awarding $1.05 billion in damages in a closely watched case over mobile devices.


Reuters
Apple's iPhone 4s (left) and Samsung's Galaxy S III photographed Friday at a store in Seoul.
The award from the nine-member jury in this Silicon Valley city is shy of Apples request for more than $2.5 billion but much larger than Samsungs estimates. It ranks among the largest intellectual-property awards on record.

Jurors found that Samsung KR:005930 -0.93%   infringed all but one of the seven patents at issue in the case  a patent covering the physical design of the iPad. They found willful infringement by Samsung in five cases, a finding that can affect the size of damage awards. They found all seven of Apples AAPL +0.09%   patents valid, despite Samsungs attempts to have them thrown out.

The jury found that Apple did not infringe any of Samsungs patents at issue in the case and awarded Samsung no damages. 
The verdict came at the end of a third day of deliberations in the case, after a trial lasting more than three weeks before U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh. The battle has drawn significant attention throughout the tech sector, where a host of companies are vying for a piece of a smartphone market estimated at $207.6 billion, according to Credit Suisse.

The battle  which has pitted the industrys Nos. 1 and 2 players  was widely seen as a barometer of how other important intellectual-property battles might play out.

Apple sued Samsung in this case in 2011, one of the highest-profile actions in a legal campaign to curb the growth of smartphones powered by Google Inc.s GOOG +0.27%  operating system Android across the globe. Apple, which has recently lost its lead in smartphone shipments to Samsung, argues that its competitors copied very aspects of its devices ranging from shape to icons to inner software functions.

Samsung countersued, alleging that some iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch models infringed up to five of its own patents.

----------


## BBT

On One-Year of Anniversary of Jobs Stepping Down as CEO, Karmas a  Patent Victory for Apple
AUGUST 24, 2012 AT 4:28 PM PT


inShare
Share
Print

If anyone had any question what an irony is exactly, consider this: Today is the one-year anniversary of the day the Steve Jobs stepped down from his job as the charismatic and legendary leader of Apple, as well as the very moment that the company he co-founded has largely won an epic legal battle with Samsung over patent infringement.
The late Apple co-founder was particularly vocal at various times on the issue of copying of innovations that he felt his company had pioneered.
And that has certainly been at the center of the landmark trial over who stole what in the aggressive race to dominate the market for popular smartphones and tablet devices, including Apples iPhone and iPad.
Right now, the verdict from a California jury  who deliberated for less than 24 hours  is being read in a San Jose courtroom.
And, so far, it is largely favoring the Silicon Valley-based Apple over the South Korean consumer electronics giant on the wide-ranging patent infringement case.
As The Verges liveblog of the verdict noted: Apple didnt win everything  not by a long shot  but it won enough to make this a very important day.
Indeed.
Those wins include patents related to touch-screen features, such as zooming, as well as on designs.
In addition, so far, Samsung has been ordered to pay Apple $1.05 billion in damages.
The jurors determined that Samsung violated six of seven patents and found that it willfully infringed in five instances. Also: The jury said that all seven of Apples patents were valid, which Samsung had contested.
The findings in the complex case are still being read in court, because it involves many patent infringement allegations on both sides related to dozens of devices.
Legions of lawyers for Apple and Samsung went back and forth on who invented what and whether it was a matter of copying or simple inspiration.
Samsung, naturally, said the various devices might be similar, but not the same. Apple begged to differ.
Jobs would have been in agreement too had be lived to see the verdict  he died of pancreatic cancer in October of last year, only months after stepping down.
But, in his resignation letter a year ago, he wrote about the importance of innovation:
I believe Apples brightest and most innovative days are ahead of it. And I look forward to watching and contributing to its success in a new role. I have made some of the best friends of my life at Apple, and I thank you all for the many years of being able to work alongside you.

----------


## katva

...breaking news: an iPhone purchase has been approved in the -VA household! !!!!!  :)  :)  :)

----------


## JEK

Finally!

----------


## BBT

Wow. Amazing. Great news

----------


## BBT

Apple Beats Samsung: First Reactions
By BRIAN X. CHEN | New York Times  8 minutes ago
Email

Print
Companies:
Apple Inc.
RELATED QUOTES
Symbol	Price	Change
AAPL	663.22	+0.59


In the landmark trial between Apple and Samsung Electronics, a jury awarded Apple over $1 billion in damages on Friday after deciding that Samsung was guilty of infringement on most patents at issue. And in response to Samsung's counter-suit accusing Apple of infringing patents, the jury concluded that Apple owed Samsung nothing. In other words, it was a clean sweep for Apple.
What follows are early reactions to the news.
Mark Lemley, a professor of Stanford's law school, spelled out just how enormous a win this was:
$1,051,855,000. And no cents, apparently. Just large enough to make it the largest surviving patent verdict in history. #icourt #appsung
In an update posted on LinkedIn, Al Sabawi, a former I.B.M. executive and founder of Quantopix, a software company, said Samsung deserved to lose.
To all the lazy copycats out there who think cutting and pasting is an intellectual achievement, that hard work, sweat and tears don't matter, that ideas, designs, and innovations can be stolen willy-nilly with no consequences: This is to you.
Paul O'Brien, founder of MoDaCo, a site focused on Windows smartphones, said this sounded like good news for Microsoft and its Windows phone platform.
Hear that noise? That's the sound of Android manufacturers ringing Microsoft right now.
Robert Barr, executive director of University of California-Berkeley's Center for Law and Technology, spelled out what this would mean for the tech industry as a whole. It's going to make it very difficult for not only Samsung but for other companies to mimic the Apple products:
Each of the patents cover a particular feature of the iPhone and the iPad. You can still make a smartphone, like the Microsoft Windows phone made by Nokia. It has a different look than the iPhone, different appearance and different features. That would be an example that is unaffected by this. The important thing here is that Apple's patents were upheld as valid. Other companies are going to have to avoid the patents or license them. Even though this jury upheld them, other companies still get a shot. They can come in with new evidence and attack them. You have to have new reasons and new evidence.
The amount of damages is extraordinary. A billion dollars in damages is extra. It's one of the biggest patent verdicts ever. That's a huge amount of damages. And the judge has to now decide whether to increase that for the wilfulness. And the judge could increase that as much as triple. The judge has to still decide if there will be an injunction against future sales or a recall of product.
Even though people can come back and attack them, they are going to need new evidence and it's going to be difficult.

----------


## katva

> Finally!



Ironically,  I can't get on the internet from my pc to purchase the #&*% thing!

Sorry to hijack the thread ....it's all good  :Wink:

----------


## JEK

Not yet. Wait for the new one

----------


## katva

I'm SO not technical, I thought I would get the "old" one...I really couldn't care less---but is there some big, new feature with the new one? I don't do much with the phone except call, text, take pix, and FB.....this Droid isn't being used to even 5% of it's capacity!  Giving it to Tomva---he'll wear it out in not time!

----------


## JEK

Newer is better.

----------


## BBT

Always

----------


## katva

:) I think I'll get the "old" phone, and hold out for the new iPad---now THAT I want with all the bells n whistles!

----------


## katva

anyway...the "old" one is still new, and it will be brand new to me!  IMHO :) Once I become a "pro" I'll look at the latest/greatest

----------


## amyb

tta girl. At last-I am happy for you

----------


## tomva

Apple, Foxconn improve China plants, but more to do: audit

----------


## MichiganPhil

Steve said it best.  

Www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JZBLjxPBUU

----------


## Petri

I don't know about the US justice system enough but I assume that's just the beginning?


Overall giving such a verdict is complete BS and opens a pandora's box for all the lawsuits to come.  I want companies to concentrate on making better products for the customers -- me -- , not hiring lawyers fighting who invented a rounded corner or bouncing ball.  That includes you too, Apple.

Apple and Samsung are in court in some 10+ other countries.

----------


## JEK

There will be appeals. This wasn't about patent trolls amassing patents and then extorting money from violators, which I distain.  Apple files for and receives a huge number of patents and uses them. Interesting that Samsung tried to license many of these in dispute. 

From WSJ:




> "Software patents are clogging the system at every possible point," says Christal Sheppard, an assistant professor of law at the University of Nebraska College of Law. "This could be the bellwether case that goes to the Supreme Court to decide what invention in the 21st century really means for software."

----------


## BBT

Petri, surprised at your reaction since Apple praised Nokia Microsoft  for their design and their licensing of patents the way it should be done. It's always easier to steal than work and this shows that US juries will not condone it. BTW the judge still has to decide on if she will increase the damages to 3B for willful intent and ban imports. So yes this is just the beginning. SK is known in other product areas to copy not design. If you don't believe it go talk to a salesman at a Hyundai dealership. They will point out on just about any of their cars whom they copied ( Toyota, Nissan, MB, Lexus, BMW). As many have said this may improve competition as they may now have to creat rather than steal. We all know that the money won't matter to either Apple or Samsung. It's the message that it sends to smaller companies that are doing this or whom might want to try this.

----------


## JEK

This is rather telling

----------


## george

samsung packaging (among other things) looks familiar too... 
http://www.samsungcopiesapple.tumblr.com

----------


## BBT

Pretty obvious to a jury also

----------


## Petri

> Petri, surprised at your reaction since Apple praised Nokia Microsoft  for their design and their licensing of patents the way it should be done.



I also praise Nokia/Microsoft for what they've done -- they've bet on doing something different.

I'm also in favour of patents where you spend a lot of money in R&D and invent something, or you create something totally new.  We wouldn't do 50 Mbit/s in the air today without them.

But I'm not in favour of patents for things like how to put your device into a dock, how to define a certain piece of user interface, or what shape a television set is, or how elements move on the user interface.

I do favor certain design intellectual property but more in the favour of complete product.  An Eames chair is all about the shape, there's nothing inside the chair left to differentiate.  The design is the product.  With an phone, car, television or computer the shape is just shape, it probably won't matter the next year, and it doesn't define the product.  There's more into the final product than just the shape.



The last five years of mobile innovation looks like this:

 

I certainly hope that the next five years will not look like the same.

This is what we had before:  http://images.www.dailymobile.net/wp...-ever-made.jpg 

From a "beer talk perspective", I remember the late 90's when I started to slide away from Nokia phones.  I and some friends were saying that their new phones are pretty much the same, just different colors and shapes, perhaps a few changed tech specs, but nothing new really.  I stayed on board for a few years but eventually I bought my first non-Nokia phone late 2001, Ericsson T68.   I rank Nokia 8810 from 1998 the last innovative Nokia phone from that era.  Nokia still continued to report stellar numbers for several years, Nokia fanboys continued to honor the mobile king.

From that perspective, there's something very similar in Apple to Nokia ~10 years ago.

----------


## BBT

Well Perhaps Nokia can sue Apple next

----------


## JEK

> The last five years of mobile innovation looks like this:
> 
>  
> 
> I certainly hope that the next five years will not look like the same.




Another view of that "lack" of innovation :)

----------


## BBT

The profit chart looks even better

----------


## Petri

> Well Perhaps Nokia can sue Apple next



They did and Apple paid.

----------


## BBT

See what goes around comes around. In the end it will all work out.

----------


## Petri

> See what goes around comes around. In the end it will all work out.



I would rather see Nokia getting hundreds of millions from good products than from lawsuits.

----------


## JEK

Jumping Off the Burning Platform

----------


## JEK

Jury Members Discuss Thought Process Behind Apple vs. Samsung Verdict
Saturday August 25, 2012 1:11 pm PDT by Arnold Kim

Reuters and CNet have interviewed members of the Apple / Samsung patent trial jury who awarded Apple over $1 billion in damages over patent infringement claims against Samsung. 

Reuters spoke with jury foreman Velvin Hogan who explained that they found Apple's arguments persuasive about the need to protect innovation. Furthermore, Hogan says it was "absolutely" clear based on Samsung executive testimony that the infringement was purposeful. 

In the CNet interview with another Apple v. Samsung juror, Manuel Ilagan reiterated that it was "clear there was infringement". When asked for specifics, he said:
"Well, there were several. The e-mails that went back and forth from Samsung execs about the Apple features that they should incorporate into their devices was pretty damning to me. And also, on the last day, they showed the pictures of the phones that Samsung made before the iPhone came out and ones that they made after the iPhone came out. Some of the Samsung executives they presented on video [testimony] from Korea -- I thought they were dodging the questions. They didn't answer one of them. They didn't help their cause."
Both jurors claim that their decision was deliberate and not rushed. According to Ilagan, the process was helped by the experience within the jury pool. Hogan, the jury foreman, had previously worked as an engineer and holds a patent himself. Meanwhile, others on the jury were said to also have engineering and legal experience. 

In determining the award amount, Hogan reports that they felt Apple's demands of $2.75 billion was "extraordinarily high", especially taking into account the uncertainty in Apple's ability to have sold significantly more iPhones due to component supply constraints. That said, Hogan told Reuters they did want a send a message.
"We didn't want to give carte blanche to a company, by any name, to infringe someone else's intellectual property," Hogan told Reuters a day after the verdict.

----------


## Petri

> Jumping Off the Burning Platform



I'm amazed how many people didn't know that when the first Nokia's Windows phones came to the market.  It wasn't a secret that the next Windows Phone version would require totally new hardware, very similar to the shift Apple made from PowerPC to Intel.

September should be interesting with Nokia's first Windows 8 phone and Apple's iPhone 5.

----------


## Petri

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/25/e...amsung-ruling/ 

Very good points from Engadget writers.

----------


## JEK

Very interesting. I have call with my s-i-l the IP lawyer for Google later today. Interested to hear his take.

----------


## Petri

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...samsung-2012-8 

Oh boy..

----------


## Petri



----------


## BBT

Love it but you knew I would. Thanks for being a good sport and posting.

----------


## BBT

PS Apple is better looking

----------


## Petri

Apple looks a bit staid..

----------


## BBT

I thought she was cute

----------


## andynap

Have you seen her standing up? Yo!

----------


## BBT

I will trust you given those 3 to choose from I will always pick her

----------


## Petri

Maybe she's just so focused to draw black and white curves.

----------

