# St Barts Forums > Getting To St Barts Forum - Airlines, Ferry Service, Charters >  >  AIRPORT TRAFFIC SOARS TO 180,000 PASSENGERS LAST YEAR

## JEK

air.jpg

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## stbartshopper

Good and bad news. The island to survive needs the business. The bad- the secret is getting out about the wonders of SBH!

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## NYCFred

I see what they did there. 

The Pilati look lovely.

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## cec1

I think the surprise is that the line-up wasn't planes of SB Commuter!

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## Islander

Don't look at the picture, but at the numbers. Tradewind does about 40% of what St Barth Commuter does in SBH.

Winair 84,800 pax (SXM)
St Barth Commuter 38,400 pax (SXM, SFG, ANU, NEV, SJU, STT...)
Air Antilles 30,300 pax (PTP)
Tradewind 15,430 pax (SJU, STT, ANU, NEV)

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## cec1

Interesting to see the numbers compiled this way.  Also of note with respect to the increased number of Tradewind passengers . . . I suspect that, with additional aircraft in its fleet, Tradewind has captured a greater percentage of the growing number of travelers to SBH.  WinAir and SB Commuter, by contrast, are somewhat "capped" by their static plane numbers and permitted number of hours that pilots can fly.

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## cassidain

> . I suspect that, with additional aircraft in its fleet, Tradewind has captured a greater percentage of the growing number of travelers to SBH.  WinAir and SB Commuter, by contrast, are somewhat "capped" by their static plane numbers and permitted number of hours that pilots can fly.



One could riposte that Tradewind's growth is capped by their comparatively very high fares.

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## JEK

Based on how many more departures on both ends they have added ever year, I wouldn't come to that conclusion.

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## cassidain

> Based on how many more departures on both ends they have added ever year, I wouldn't come to that conclusion.



It's not a conclusion but, I would suggest, a very reasonable possibility. Tradewind's fares are, I think, along the order of 4 to 6 times those of Winair or SB Commuter. Hard to justify for those of relatively modest means flying into SBH.

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## JEK

Distance makes a difference. Check fares to SJU and schedules from far flung places and it may not be as such as you think.

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## Islander

OK, facts only:

1. Scheduled services: the only route that both operators have in common is ANTIGUA (ANU) - ST BARTHS (SBH)

SBC: €300 EUR ($340 at today's exchange rate)
TWA: $495 USD

Booking simulations made for a one way flight ANU SBH on March 11th on operators websites.


2. Private Charter Services (one way rates)

SAN JUAN (SJU) - ST BARTHS (SBH)

SBC: €3,900 EUR ($4,400 USD)
TWA: $3,950 USD non holiday - $4,950 USD holiday


ST THOMAS (STT) - ST BARTHS (SBH)

SBC: €2,900 EUR ($3,280 USD)
TWA: $3,950 USD non holiday - $4,950 USD holiday


ANTIGUA (ANU) - ST BARTHS (SBH)

SBC: €1,400 EUR Low Season - €1,500 EUR High season ($1,590 USD - $1,700 USD)
TWA: $3,960 USD (8 seats on the Scheduled service, so as to "Privatize the flight").

SBC is all taxes & fees included, TWA is not.


It appears that TWA is substantially more expensive than SBC on most routes.

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## JEK

Whatever

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## Islander

Wow, that's an interesting comment JEK! Obviously not a factual one, though.

I like you "moderating" skills!  :Triumphant:

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## JEK

Well, perhaps Apples and Oranges is better factual response :)

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## Islander

Apples & Oranges?

Both operators provide quality service. The Pilatus and Caravan share similar features, such as single-engine Turbo-prop engine (Pratt & Whitney PT6 turbine), Certified Air Operator Certificate (TWA under FAA rules, SBC under EASA rules), and customer-friendly booking procedures. Highly-trained professionals, impeccable safety records, ... for both....

I don't see much of a difference here, and I know both very well, including their management team. But perhaps are you willing to further express your opinion on this? You might have personal experiences with each one of them?

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## JEK

Flown both for years. My point is that depending where one's flight originates in the US and one's schedule,  the price difference may not be that great. I know people that fly one-way on one and the other way on the other.

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## Islander

I believe you are comparing SJU vs SXM?

You will notice that I haven't compared these routes against each other. For the simple reason that SBC and TWA do not compete on that particular segment: TWA is not flying between SXM and SBH.

The exercice of comparing both operators on the same competitive markets is far more interesting when it comes down to pricing (the purpose of this discussion). This can only be done for the same routes, as per the above comparison. And the price difference is sometimes substantial!

Convenience of routing is a different topic all together. As much as the preferred gateway is. Some will prefer SJU, some will prefer SXM, some will prefer ANU (and the brand new airport).

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## JEK

I'm comparing the cost of flying from one's home airport  in the US to SBH.

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## Islander

TWA has scheduled flights from SJU to SBH, SBC not. SBC has scheduled flights from SXM to SBH, TWA not.

If you don't compare SJU vs SXM, could you please explain how TWA would be competitive for the same service on the same routes? That is on the ANU SBH scheduled route and SJU SBH, STT SBH, and ANU SBH charter routes. Their price structure appears to be more expensive on these segments.

I believe that TWA can only be competitive against SBC (and yet this would need to be demonstrated with a factual example) if you compare scheduled service for SJU to SBH on Tradewind and scheduled service for SXM to SBH on St Barth Commuter in connection with itineraries originating in the continental US. 

That is not the purpose of the comparison above. Apples with Apples. 

On a side note, I have it on good authority that the French Civil Aviation Authorities (DSAC in Martinique) and the Eastern Caribbean Civil Aviation Authorities (ECCAA in Antigua) do not necessarily approve the use of 5th freedom of the air - ICAO rules when it comes to the ANU SBH and NEV SBH routes operated by Tradewind.

ANU, SBH, NEV are non-US territories and outside of the FAA's scope. In a similar scenario, SBC would start to fly between SJU and AXA (Anguilla), totally outside of their jurisdiction.

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## mulls01

Not to enter this fray with something to make the apples and oranges more unequal -  but in talking to island residents, they pay a substantially discounted fare (maybe 50%) - on Tradewind.  So comparing SBC and TWA is even harder if you don't know how many of the TWA 15,000 residents are islanders.

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## cassidain

> Not to enter this fray with something to make the apples and oranges more unequal -  but in talking to island residents, they pay a substantially discounted fare (maybe 50%) - on Tradewind.  So comparing SBC and TWA is even harder if you don't know how many of the TWA 15,000 residents are islanders.



Excellent point ! I had forgotten that une petite oiseau had told me that a couple of years ago. Can't imagine why TWA would offer that to les Saint-Barths but not to the rest of us . . .

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## Islander

Simple reason: les Saint-Barths are living on a little rock isolated from the rest of the world. When they need to go somewhere it's usually costly and complicated. To compensate this problem, most airlines and ferry boats offer special island resident's discounts (sometimes funded by the Government). It's quite common, and found in many islands.... including Corsica, Ibiza, Palma, , etc....

"Tourists" obviously are on a different "trip" and only respond to a blue sky holiday need..... not quite the same.

By the way, it's "un petit oiseau".... l'oiseau est masculin.  :cool:

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## cassidain

> By the way, it's "un petit oiseau".... l'oiseau est masculin.



My bad. The little birdie in this case was a lady, and I forgot to forget my English so as to compensate for the fact that, en français, it doesn't matter if it's a little girl birdie or a little boy birdie. 
Believe it or not, I have enough French under my belt that I cringe like you do at une faute d'accord (genre/nombre).

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## pascaleschmidt

The ones who want to show off and have bigger egos fly Tradewinds...

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## cec1

For heaven sakes, Pascaleschmidt . . . what a pompous thing to say!  I personally find that I sometimes save money or pay no more when I use Tradewind through SJU.  I don't know if you've ever done price comparison "shopping" of the routes to SBH, but my experience has taught me to check.  The key to pricing the Tradewind routing is the fare to / from SJU . . . there are times when the round trip fare between FL & SJU are "dirt cheap," as an old saying goes.

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## julianne

I agree, Dennis. There are many more flights from some U.S. Airports to SJU than to SXM. And you have to carefully review the options, especially if you using frequent flyer points. I found Pascale's comment surprising, to say the least.

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## elgreaux

Also some people prefer two flights rather than three, depending on where they are coming from. Also I have found that sometimes Tradewind provides the best route to get where I am going...not always New York...

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## shihadehs

I found Pascale's comments quite offensive for those of us who choose to fly Tradewind for whatever reason we so choose...for us it is the convenience and availability from our home city and no way do we consider ourselves having big egos.....we are just comfortable with our choice...to each his own....
Aimee

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## stbartshopper

We think it is just habit- the established route has always been SXM. When you go to Expedia etc. the routes given are always thru SXM. One has to work to even discover the SJU route. Until Tradewind wants to get into bed with Priceline and other travel sites to pay their way up the search engine, the SJU route will probably always pay second fiddle to SXM as it is more a word of mouth from a limited number of mouths.

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## Islander

> I guess because les Saint-Barths are living on that isolated rock they also deserve a 10% discount at Le Carré (that's cacahuétes compared to the 50% discount at Tradewind)



Cacahuètes ! , not Cacahuétes.....  close but not quite the same... :)

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## cassidain

> Cacahuètes ! , not Cacahuétes.....  close but not quite the same... :)



Ça s'appelle une faute de frappe, mon vieux. 
Calme-toi, papillon !

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## SueL

My family of 6 flew Tradewinds from SJU to SBH and a private SBC charter for the return flight from SBH to SJU.  I had gotten a deal on flights from Houston to SJU that put that flight itinerary a modest $600 more total for complete flexibility and ease of traveling with my gaggle of kids.  Well worth it.

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## Islander

> Ça s'appelle une faute de frappe, mon vieux.





Je ne suis pas "ton vieux" (I told you already this is offending).

Une "faute de frappe" c'est lorsque que l'on tape sur une mauvaise touche de son clavier ("frapper son clavier" fait référence aux anciennes machines à écrire où il fallait littéralement frapper sur les touches).

Ce n'est pas le cas ici, tu t'es simplement trompé d'accent (erreur d'orthographe).

Pas besoin d'en faire tout un plat..., ça arrive aux meilleurs d'entre nous..... :thumb up:

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## cassidain

it's called a typo in english, old friend. get over it. i know as well as you do that the french word for peanuts is spelled with un accent grave.

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## Islander

The comparison table above demonstrated that TWA is more expensive (by the flying mile) than SBC, both for charter flights and scheduled flights (on the routes operated by both airlines).

There is no doubt that any trip starting in Texas, or anything more "West" (i.e. California....), San Juan is a much better hub to the Caribbean. Usually saving one leg compared to the SXM hub. This is not necessarily true when flying from the East Coast.

That does not mean that Tradewind is cheaper than St Barth Commuter, but it does mean that the convenience of routing and flight options might make the whole trip a better option when originating in HOU, DFW, LAX, SFO, ....

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## Islander

> it's called a typo in english, old friend. get over it.



OK French did not work..... let me try in English (last attempt, after that I quit):

Cacahuètes vs Cacahuétes

This is a "spelling error" ("Faute d'orthographe"). This is not a "typing error", aka "typo" ("Faute de frappe").

The French language makes a clear distinction between those two types of error.

Si tu veux parler Français correctement, il faut respecter la précision que la langue requiert. C'est la première règle d'orthographe que l'on apprend aux enfants dans les écoles de France.

BTW, you're welcome!

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## cassidain

let me make it a little easier for you, old friend:

*Typos vs Misspellings*



In this typos vs. misspellings article the differences between typos and misspellings is explained.  A typo is just hitting the wrong key. Misspelling a word is usually more complicated. Read on to learn more... Some people lump typos and misspellings together either because they are so often presented that way or because they have never had a reason to clearly differentiate them. The value of differentiating them is to come to a better understanding of ones own spelling mistakes - which can result from either - so that one can adopt appropriate plans to avoid or find and fix the mistakes.
*Typos*
Typos refers solely to mistakes that occur because of the way ones fingers hit the keyboard. They are mistakes that you wouldnt make if you were, say, writing the word with a pencil or spelling it aloud. They are entirely due to the circumstances of keyboarding. 
And, because they are tied to the circumstances of keyboarding, while the user of a QWERTY keyboard and a Dvorak keyboard will make the same type of errors the results of the errors will look different. This is partly because, obviously with a different keyboard layout, missing a key will have different results. 
But the other key reason is that the Dvorak keyboard was designed to reduce typos overall by employing a set of principles that include placing frequently used letters where they are most easily reached; allowing the right hand to dominate, since most people are right dominant; arranging letters so that they alternate between hands; and arranging the letters of digraphs so that they are not adjacent. For the rest of the article, however, we will be discussing the QWERTY keyboard, which is much more widely used. 
Lets lay out the main categories of typos.
*Skip a letter:* If your finger doesnt come down with enough force, a letter may not get typed. This can happen more with the pinky or on the bottom row.
Double a letter: In typing several letters in close proximity, a key can be accidentally re-tapped.
*Transpose letters:* Some say that typing t-e-h for t-h-e is the most common spelling error. This suggests that perhaps the messages to the fingers are not keeping up with the keyboarders thinking ahead to the next word. 
*Skip a space:* This can happen if the space bar isnt hit firmly enough or if it needs to be hit with the non dominant hand which is less accustomed to tapping it. In addition, the appearance of a missed space can come about due to a transposition of the space with a letter - often the final letter of a word that gets tagged onto the front of the next word by the space/letter transposition. An example is aboutit instead of about it.
*Miss a key:* This can happen both when the keyboardist hits a neighboring key instead of the key intended and also with the keys that require a reach or that are less frequently used. So, one may mistype b and numbers like 1, 6, and 7 as well as the `, ~, ^, &, =, and +. In addition, when typing a key combination, the modifying key may be missed, resulting in spellings like aren;t instead of arent. 
*Insert a key:* When the fingers are flying, an extra letter that doesnt belong in the word may get introduced.
*Misspellings*
Misspellings occur mainly with homophones and words with similar letters. Homographs and homonyms, obviously, cant be misspelled because one of their features is that theyre spelled identically. Misspellings also occur in words with unusual spellings and/or that dont follow the most common rules that people learn. Common categories of misspelling include:
*Double instead of single and Single instead of double:* Many people puzzle over the number of cs and ms in accommodate and the number of rs in occurred. Naturally, this confusion is not automatically alleviated when one is keyboarding.
*Mistaken spelling of a vowel or consonant sound:* When we work with a language in which /k/ can be spelled /c/, /k/, /ck/, /q/, /cq/, etc., its not wonder that sometimes misspellings come from assigning the wrong spelling to a sound. This goes for vowels sounds as well, of course.
*Mistaken spelling of a suffix* (or/er; able/ible): This is like mistaking the spelling of a vowel or consonant sound, but for a slightly larger word part: bigger than a single vowel or consonant sound, but smaller than a word, these homophonic affixes can give keyboardists trouble.
*Substituting a homophone:* The famous errors of mistaking to, too, two; your, youre, yore; and their, theyre, there are common at the keyboard. Were less likely to mistake words that name similar things but look and sound very different (for example: ewe and ram) than we are to mistake these words, which take extra cognitive energy to distinguish.
Now that you know what the types of errors are, you can take a closer look at what happens when you type and have a better shot at choosing strategies that will be effective in improving your spelling.

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## cassidain

you should be glad that an american cares to learn your irrelavent (see, there's a misspelling. i can never remember which way the a's and e's go. not a typo. whereas i know perfectly well 100% which accent goes on the e in cacahuète) language anyway. french is scarcely taught anymore in america even in college prep schools.

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## Islander

> you should be glad that an american cares to learn your irrelavent (see, there's a misspelling. i can never remember which way the a's and e's go. not a typo. whereas i know perfectly well 100% which accent goes on the e in cacahuète) language anyway. french is scarcely taught anymore in america even in college prep schools.



French an irrelevant language? Wow! Very pleasant and educated answer. Especially on a board dedicated to a French island.

I"m sure all French and francophiles members on this forum will enjoy reading this. You're crossing the line, Cassidain.

Tu devrais vraiment souffler un coup, ça te ferait du bien. Pourquoi pas quelques jours à St Barth ? A parler une langue qui ne sert à rien...


PS: your typo wouldn't have been possible an a QWERTY keyboard (assuming this is what you are using like everybody else in the US?), as there are no accents on the keys. On an AZERTY keyboard, it might be possible as the "é" and the "è" are 4 keys away.

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## cassidain

You obviously don't know how an è is produced on a MacBook. Don't sweat it though. Relax. 
As far as the French language is concerned, it's a beautiful, beautiful language that I adore and have struggled to learn over several decades off and on. I visit France or SBH every year but need zero French to communicate. Every French man and woman for two generations has learned English as a second language. Statistically zero Americans learn French as a second language. Before each trip I spend hundreds of dollars refreshing my skills with a tutor. Une Suissesse currently. And spend dozens of hours listening to French radio. I start back with my tutor next week for a May trip to Cassis. When in France I will insist on speaking only French at the airport, the car rental, my appt rental agent, people in shops or restaurants or on the street.  I make quite an effort while I don't need to make any. I could speak 100% English and have no problems whatever. So, French is not irrelevant to me, but globally in many ways it is.

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## Islander

No sweat: 
é: option key + letter e
è: option key + ` followed by letter e


Quote: "Every French man and woman for two generations has learned English as a second language" -> I live in this country and can tell you that this is absolutely NOT true.

St Barths is a little different as most people speak English due the tourism industry. Also many locals moved to/from St Thomas, or went studying in the US & Canada.

However speaking 100% English in France won't get you far beyond the airport, car rental company and hotel as most people on the street don't speak English. Try Arabic, Spanish or Italian if you wish, but not English.

English is the international language of trade, science and diplomacy. However "globally" 212 million people still use the language daily, including in the Americas: Canada (9 million), Haiti (4.5 million), the French West Indies & Guyana (1 million), some parts of Argentina and Brazil. Even in the US, such as Louisiana (200,000 speak Cajun French at home), parts of New England (speaking a variant of Canadian French). Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire are the states where French remain the second most-spoken language.

In 2025, it is estimated that 500 million people will speak French worldwide.

French is one of the two languages used by the United Nations administration. It's also one of the official ICAO languages. Other international organizations recognize French as an official language: the European Union, NATO, the W.T.O, the International Olympic Committee...It's also the national language of 29 nations. French is the fourth most widely spoken mother tongue in the European Union.

In 2011, Bloomberg Business week ranked French the third most useful language for business... etc.

More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language

French irrelevant? Only native English-speaking people tend to think that. The same goes for Spanish or Chinese Mandarin, or any other language for that matter.

As a european, I expect every one to speak at least 1 foreign language. I respect those who can speak 2 foreign languages. I admire those who can speak 3 or more foreign languages. It is a sign of education, intelligence and interest in other cultures of this world.

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## cassidain

As I said, you _don't_ know how MacBook users produce diacritics. As a French speaker you would have no idea what percentage of people that an anglophone tourist encounters in France speak English. I can tell you that it's virtually 100% today. Not 25 years ago, but today it is.
French is a somewhat useful language, but I can tell you that if you work for an American multinational corporation and are transferred to Europe, you are not expected to speak French or German or Dutch or Italian or ....
The reverse would not be true.
As for learning second languages, I agree it's a nice endeavor, but for an American it's hardly essential, and arguably not an efficient use of one's time and energy.
Here's a map that you may find interesting:
Screen Shot 2016-02-28 at 3.49.23 PM.png
from The Guardian 2014

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## Dennis

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!

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## cassidain

> Gentlemen! Gentlemen!



 :thumb up:

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## Islander

Nice moderating, moderators! I somehow knew this place was not a democracy, but now it is confirmed.

Could you please explain why you erased all last posts, including the ones responding to the attacks above?

I expect this post to be erased too. Surely a radical way to handle truth.

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## Dennis

> Nice moderating, moderators! I somehow knew this place was not a democracy, but now it is confirmed.
> 
> Could you please explain why you erased all last posts, including the ones responding to the attacks above?
> 
> I expect this post to be erased too. Surely a radical way to handle truth.



First, why don't you explain how it is related to the topic.

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## Islander

Oh that's interesting! Thread drift means erasing by moderators? Wow!

You usually do not erase drifting topics, and there are many every day. It is very interesting to see that some are "moderated" and some are not. There was no abuse of language, no politics, no religion, no sex offense, not even strong words. The forum policy was respected at all times. If not, please refer exactly to the part where the line was crossed?

The moderating that you just did is simply unfair, it really feels like you didn't want Laurent and myself responding to the wrong assumptions of Cassidain (a friend of yours perhaps?)

I kept copies of the posts that you deleted and I keep them available by PM to any forum member reading this who would like to know how wrong your moderating was.

Again, by erasing this post and the previous one, all you will achieve is demonstrating that I'm right.

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## cassidain

Right, mon vieil ami, Dennis and I are the closest of friends.

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## Islander

Check your PM, buddy! Moderating public space is one thing, telling you what I have to tell you by PM is another thing.

Mods, if you really want to help, why don't you erase Cassidain's last post? All he does is adding oil to the fire. 

Now that would be some moderating!

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## cassidain

I have called for une entente cordiale. We'll see if our gallic brothers respond in kind.

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## Dennis

> Oh that's interesting! Thread drift means erasing by moderators? Wow!
> 
> You usually do not erase drifting topics, and there are many every day. It is very interesting to see that some are "moderated" and some are not. There was no abuse of language, no politics, no religion, no sex offense, not even strong words. The forum policy was respected at all times. If not, please refer exactly to the part where the line was crossed?
> 
> The moderating that you just did is simply unfair, it really feels like you didn't want Laurent and myself responding to the wrong assumptions of Cassidain (a friend of yours perhaps?)
> 
> I kept copies of the posts that you deleted and I keep them available by PM to any forum member reading this who would like to know how wrong your moderating was.
> 
> Again, by erasing this post and the previous one, all you will achieve is demonstrating that I'm right.



Just so you undertand I'm Ok posting my PM to you publicly:

First, everything after your first sentence is absolute bulls*hit.

Take it to what ever "level" you want.

Second, I had no problem with the content of the silly back and forth, just the forum it was taking place in. What does that have to do with air traffic at SXM?

Go fornicate yourself.

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## Dennis

I forgot to post your pompus Pm to me:

Dennis,

Can you please explain why you erased the last posts? 2 from Laurent, 1 from myself. They were in no way in breach of the forum policy, but perhaps did I miss something?

You provided no valid explanation on the thread other than a topic drift. Wow! Impressive.

I'm used to forums, and when there's some moderating going on, the moderator always describes why, what, when the moderating took place. I haven't seen any of this from you, and to say the least I was not impressed by your democratic skills here.

I cannot tell you how wrong this feels. I believe you crossed the moderating line, and from the outside it really looks like the forum is ran by bunch of friends sticking together against the rest of the crowd.

Laurent and I know a lot more about French (and other topics) than Cassidain, and should you think that you made an error here my advise to you would simply be to restore the posts. If you don't have a copy, I do!.

I obviously expect an answer from you by PM and possibly on the public space.

I am a long term resident of SBH and I guarantee you I will take this to another level, should I need to. Laurent is also a long term resident of SBH.

Last but not least, my company is a customer of sbhonline with yearly advertising on the site (thousands of USD spent in the last years). I'm not sure how WIMCO would react to see us leaving from the site?

Advise please.

Regards

Islander

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## andynap

Dennis- I hope you are the last word.   :Sleeping:

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## Islander

> Just so you undertand I'm Ok posting my PM to you publicly:
> 
> First, everything after your first sentence is absolute bulls*hit.
> 
> Take it to what ever "level" you want.
> 
> Second, I had no problem with the content of the silly back and forth, just the forum it was taking place in. What does that have to do with air traffic at SXM?
> 
> Go fornicate yourself.




Let me get this straight.

"Bull****" and "go fornicate yourself".... WOW, once again real moderating skills demonstrated here! Not to mention the public publishing of a PM (which of course is technically directed to the private person and not to the wide public).

I have taken screen shots of the above. I am writing a letter to the website owner (WIMCO) and describe what happened in the last 24 hours.

Im also re-publishing the content of the posts that you erased, so that everyone here can decide if this was appropriate or not.

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## Islander

Published by "Laurent"

funny because, out of tourist's highlights (museums, car rentals comp., airports (well... it depends), 3 stars & above-hotels...etc... and in general in the capital/Paris tourist areas, I would have said the % is close to zero.
Learning english at french school is far far....really far away from being able to speak at least basic english.

And so, the 100% you encounter Cassidain is probably right at your hotel, into the multinational corp. meeting room...
out of this : back to a basic "coke please" / "bien sûr monsieur".
I wish 100% of the frenchs speak english, but it's just not true.



you are very right when you say : no way for me to evaluate french's skills from french people, when I speak french to them.

but,
1 - every time I'm in France, with no exception, I witness situations, from funny to annoying, that allow me to state a poor level. Edit : the same with frenchs outside of their own country where english is needed.
2 - I've spend quiet some time at school, in France, I've learned english (for what it worths) everywhere except at school 
3 - the general poor level in english from the frenchs, is well known, it's a measured fact, some reading :

http://www.ef.fr/epi/
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/articl...1684_3224.html
http://www.slate.fr/story/68577/francais-nuls-anglais

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## Islander

Published by myself and "moderated" by Dennis

Cassidain, as a gentleman, I would say to you: You have absolutely no clue of what's going on in the French education system. Also Laurent pulled out some very interesting articles which describe how poorly the French population speaks English. Did you read them?

It is not because you visit this country once a year that you know the people or the culture. You obviously stay in good hotels, eat in nice restaurants.... and of course the staff will have a reasonably good level of English (as expected in these places). Also you probably visit the touristic parts of France. Have you ever been in Montluçon, Nevers or Tours? (you can always use Google map if you don't know where these towns are). I guarantee you that you will meet very few people speaking English on the street.

Not everybody works in an american multinational corporation, and in fact, that's OK. This is not the whole world you know? If you think it is, this is very sad and I feel sorry for you.

Now get over it, try to listen to people a little more, especially when you are talking about a subject that you know little about. I'm guessing your day to day professional life takes you in high responsibility positions, where very few people challenge you on a daily basis. Am I right? But here, this is simply a discussion board about a little French island in the Caribbean sea. Many forum members know a lot more than you do about some topics and that's something your ego should live with.

Finally, please drop the insulting parts of your posts, as they start to be very annoying. I know how a MacBook works (I'm using one right now), and there are different ways to gets French accents from a QWERTY keyboard, including the one I described. Your arrogance is out of line.

I'm not your "vieux", and even less your "old friend" (I don't think we will ever be friends to be honest).

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## cassidain

As a famous moderator once said, it's time to move on. I would have liked to ask how to say in French, "we'll just have to agree to disagree" (I've never run across its equivalent), but I don't think issuing helpful advice is your strong point. More into scolding. Farewell old unfriend. You could learn a collegial spirit from Pascale, but that would require a modicum of humility on your part.

oh, and ps, the "mon vieux" with you or anyone else on this site was always a tongue-in-cheek usage. Of course, we're not old friends. Again a nuance of usage . . .

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## Dennis

> Let me get this straight.
> 
> "Bull****" and "go fornicate yourself".... WOW, once again real moderating skills demonstrated here! Not to mention the public publishing of a PM (which of course is technically directed to the private person and not to the wide public).
> 
> I have taken screen shots of the above. I am writing a letter to the website owner (WIMCO) and describe what happened in the last 24 hours.
> 
> Im also re-publishing the content of the posts that you erased, so that everyone here can decide if this was appropriate or not.



I apologize for telling you go fornicate yourself. I don't apologize for thinking it, though. 

It's just that Mad Max was winning all those awards...and I had been drinking...

Anyway, I asked y'all nicely to stop (Gentlemen! Gentlemen!). Hank got the point. You did not.

So you chose to play the "Do you know who I am?" card. Silly.

Finally, if you're looking for someone with "moderating skills", whatever those are. you're in the wrong place. mon ami.

Have a great leap year day!

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## elgreaux

Can someone please lock down this thread. It's out of control !

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## JEK

Lock

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