# St Barts Forums > St Barts Trip Reports Forum >  >  Honesty or Politically correct? That is the Question!

## carmen

On this our 25th trip we sought the usual-peace, quiet, R and R, beautiful beaches, warm people and a respite from reality.

We got beautiful beaches, warm greetings and service from Hotel and Restaurant management school interns!  Then:  noise, noise, construction, excavation, construction traffic, more construction traffic, an opening editorial in PURE filing us in on what caused the spoiling of wild beaches (toiny), indifferent poorly prepared food at astronomical prices ( a certain to-go which is a branch of a love it or hate it main establishment wanted 18 euros for 220 grams of bad tomatoes and a few tiny fragments of feta) puking chefs and the smell of disease at our favorite restaurant now run by another,  a pig wearing a camera in Gustavia Town center and wind, wind and more wind. Inconsiderate smoking in restaurants that ruined nearly every decent meal and except for Hafida no one sympathetic to the buzz kill  and really harmful effects of second hand smoke.  And what was with the camo wearing overly muscled mercenary appearing dudes we saw arming up in the rental car lot at the airport?  Did we go to an alternate universe to another St. Barts or the one we had deluded ourselves into thinking was paradise?

Certainly there are exceptions and a few good times were had, but in the face of a rising market and generally favorable economy in many developed countries, the small crowds we saw spoke volumes.

We want the old St. Barts.  Please let us know how your feel (with civility please)  Hopefully it will return so our kids can enjoy it someday

----------


## cec1

. . . sorry to read of your poor experience.  The island continues to change, no doubt . . . but my recent weeks there were very pleasant.  Great weather . . . great gatherings of friends . . . lively restaurants, without being "slammed" . . . fun gallery openings . . . parking in Gustavia (!) . . . restful naps & some quiet evenings at home (moonlit dinners by the pool) . . . no seaweed on my favorite beaches . . . water temps comfortable.  I'm heading back soon.

----------


## MIke R

Please understand that you are mostly going to be dismissed as a reactionary who isn't seeing things clearly by many in here...the remaining people who actually like what is going on there  will stay mostly quiet while things play out in their favor ....then a few ( damn few) will see where you re coming from and empathize with you and your feelings ....denial also runs in spades around this cyber neighborhood as well...

That being said, what you don't like isn't going away any time soon, if at all  .....they have clearly chosen their path and it isn't going to be deviated from, mainly  because the  voices in control don't want it any other way then exactly how it is going ....cold cash is doing the talking now....the Kool Aid has been consumed ....greed is fueling the endeavors .....the demographic  is now and  will continue to slowly turn over from those who have a distaste for these developments, to those who think everything going on is just wonderful ....and that's the reality ....happens all the time around the world in resort communities .....places change..and  the  people who visit subsequently change,  and life  goes on ....I've spent 45 years living and working in resort communities, both beach and mountain,  so this is an easy read for me and an even easier  call to make ,..I ve seen this movie before ...many times .....I know how it ends 

It's a great big wide world out there with lots of beautiful places ......so your choice is to find your shangrala where you can in St Bart's for as long as you can ......and when the day comes that  you can't,  then  simply move on to another destination  with fond memories of  what was, because no matter what happens here, no one can take those memories from you ....

now brace yourself while  the Chamber of Commerce gets ready to do damage control  :cool:

----------


## cassidain

> It's a great big wide world out there with lots of beautiful places ......so your choice is to find your shangrala where you can in St Bart's for as long as you can ......and when the day comes that  you can't,  then  simply move on to another destination  with fond memories of  what was, because no matter what happens here, no one can take those memories from you ....



i just keep agreeing with you, mike. if saint-barth has lost its charm for an individual, then it's time for that person to move on. it's not vacation jail. the island is evolving for better or worse depending on one's point of view, and it definitely is getting more expensive, so one should explore alternative destinations. that's just common sense.

----------


## elgreaux

I agree with Carmen and Mike, and like many others, wish the island hadn't changed so much so fast. We live here, and have been through the worst 7 years of my life with what is going on across the street from us, and are being forced to move. I say that folks like Carmen should send such letters to town hall, the tourist office, the hotel and villa association, your rental agency or hotel manager, Le News, the Journal de St Barth... and see if you can get any traction. Say you aren't coming back if things don't change for the better... enough letters like that and someone is bound to start paying attention. One hopes...

----------


## andynap

If Helene gets in, that's a small step.

----------


## MIke R

> . I say that folks like Carmen should send such letters to town hall, the tourist office, the hotel and villa association, your rental agency or hotel manager, Le News, the Journal de St Barth... and see if you can get any traction. Say you aren't coming back if things don't change for the better... enough letters like that and someone is bound to start paying attention. One hopes...



I don't agree with that simply because they want people like us to leave and be replaced by a demograhic who supports all this craziness ...so letters will do very little ....letters only work when the choice is you get my business or you get no business. ...but for them when you lose  my business and you get bigger spenders to replace me  .its a win win for them........this is  clearly a circle that works against us and for them.....in situations lile this I like my Dads advice the best which always was " pick your battles wisely and walk away from a fight  you can't win when you know the outcome is already predetermined "

----------


## MIke R

> If Helene gets in, that's a small step.




I love  her and the fight she is taking on but I don't think she has a snowballs chance in hell ......
But I would love to see her make a difference 

I'm afraid big money will eventually  beat her down

----------


## cassidain

:strawberry:



> I don't think she has a snowballs chance in hell ......



again we agree !

----------


## MIke R

> :strawberry:
> 
> again we agree !



now look what you ve done

the sun is probably going to set in the east tonight

----------


## elgreaux

I don't know Mike, I think the pendulum is starting to swing a little bit, the season was off, everyone is complaining about noise, cars, cranes, jack hammers, etc.... Helene should get a least a seat on the council (If Bruno runs again she won't win, if he doesn't, all bets are off, right...) and I think some of the other people on the council are beginning to hear the music... fingers crossed...

----------


## MIke R

Well I suppose anything is possible but it's rare that you can put the genie back in the bottle ....

As  always...follow the money


let's hope

----------


## Luciano

I too am back after two weeks late Jan/early Feb and share most of Carmen's observations. Construction across the street from my villa, awoken 7 am every day. Construction absolutely everywhere. Searing attitude in some shops (Prada are you reading this..) and prices that keep going up, up, up - try SBH on the Canadian peso.  Been going to the island since 1990 and to me its "je ne sais quoi" is all but gone.  Reading this website every single day leaves no doubt how cherished each one of us considers this place.  St Barts has given me a lifetime of  memories and is a place where I have made many longstanding friends. That said, I am already planning on ways to reduce my spend when I return, and look to discovering other parts of the world - there's more than one Shangri-La.

----------


## MIke R

Well given all that I ve read  we are certainly going to lay even lower than we usually do in the spring .....which is pretty low to begin with ....fortunately there is zero construction where we go so that won't be an issue......walks to Colombier ....rent a boat and head to Colombier....stay away from the St Jean circus ...and maybe eat in more, which is more than ok with me as I love cooking there .....

we already know we wont be back the following year ..I may go alone again for a few days in the late fall, but the fam is wanting Jost again in 2018..
or Anagada 

nothing is forever ...this we have learned yet again ..it's been a great 37 years....it owes me nothing at all

----------


## pascaleschmidt

Helene wants a seat in the council....

----------


## elgreaux

> Helene wants a seat in the council....



I would love to see her have a seat on the council, her heart is in the right place and she really cares about her island, in a big way. Sadly, the opposition seats on the council have not had much traction to date. Hopefully she can make herself heard in a positive way and make a difference. I like her personally as well what she has done for her island....

----------


## ccg

I wish Helene all the luck in the world!!  We have been fighting our transit group for the past 3 years and I agree with Mike, that my letters, emails, phone calls, and attendance at city meetings are making no difference.  The mayor and commissioners want this stupid light rail and that's it.  Not sure how 18 miles of track, that will never be expanded, and costs 2.5B (in today's $$) is sustainable let alone practical.  There are not enough people to ride the train.  But who am I, just a citizen and tax payer.

C

----------


## carmen

> I would love to see her have a seat on the council, her heart is in the right place and she really cares about her island, in a big way. Sadly, the opposition seats on the council have not had much traction to date. Hopefully she can make herself heard in a positive way and make a difference. I like her personally as well what she has done for her island....



It is so nice to have input from folks we have met, locals and those we have not, but who we know love the island.  Writing letters to government officials I fear will have little effect.  In my experience bias is blinding and those who have let this travesty evolve would care very little what I think. Only by being honest on a forum such as this can we hope to dissuade others from wasting their hard earned dollars in what was a safe restful friendly place. Only by getting a true review being posted by a reputable travel writer not paid to write puff and ignore the tragedy can we hope to stem the tide by taking a bite out of the pockets of those who are benefiting from this unfettered greed. That and a populist revolt of the local voters hoping to reclaim their paradise may be effective.  I am not sure who Helene is, but if I could, I would certainly vote for her.  Several locals whom I respect said unequivocally that they would vote for anyone with enough cojones to run but that no one they knew had those. I doubt if many locals are enjoying the wealth generated from what is going on.  Maybe in the absence of testosterone, a good woman could stem the tide, but until now I have been blind and silent and to all of you I apologize for that blindness for now I feel like I have been healed and now I see.  By the way I have received some private messages with similar concerns, so please all of you be frank and keep the comments coming. 🙏. And whatever you do, do not let Harrison Ford try to land there! :Big Grin:

----------


## cassidain

"Only by being honest on a forum such as this can we hope to dissuade others from wasting their hard earned dollars in what was a safe restful friendly place."

should we add a #24 to JEK's list?

#24. forget #1 thru #23. don't come to saint-barth anyway and waste your hard-earned dollars

----------


## Bart -my real name-

> Please understand that you are mostly going to be dismissed as a reactionary



IRONY ALERT

POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK ALERT

----------


## Bart -my real name-

> an opening editorial in PURE filing us in on what caused the spoiling of wild beaches (toiny), indifferent poorly prepared food at astronomical prices ( a certain to-go which is a branch of a love it or hate it main establishment wanted 18 euros for 220 grams of bad tomatoes and a few tiny fragments of feta) puking chefs and the smell of disease at our favorite restaurant now run by another,  a pig wearing a camera in Gustavia Town center and wind, wind and more wind. Inconsiderate smoking in restaurants that ruined nearly every decent meal and except for Hafida no one sympathetic to the buzz kill  and really harmful effects of second hand smoke.



I'm with you on the second hand smoke, but this is France.  That's how they roll.  It's interesting you specifically mention Hafida/The Hideway.  For the last two years, we've had some of our worst experiences there with regards to second smoke.  Both times the smokers were sitting outside the actual restaurant (in the little area on the far left as you walk in) but the wind was blowing the smoke into and through the restaurant!  

Care to name names of the overpriced, underwhelming restaurants?  Also the smell of disease?  And of course the puking chef?

----------


## MIke R

> IRONY ALERT
> 
> POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK ALERT



whatever you say

----------


## Eve

As long as there is Les Mouettes, the market across the street, Jojo Burger, and some St Jean mixed in, I'm still ok. Plus the great exchange rate doesn't hurt.

----------


## RickyG

Jump the Shark.jpg

----------


## tim

But where is the shark?

----------


## carmen

Let us just say Manny is sorely missed by our crew.

----------


## thomasj

"We want the old St. Barts.  Please let us know how your feel (with civility please)  Hopefully it will return so our kids can enjoy it someday[/QUOTE]


ME TOO! That said, it will never happen. Once the money starts talking and flowing to the local politicos, you can never turn back. As others have mentioned - this has been seen before and in any case, we (I) are thankful that St. Barts did have its time, we have to remember it was not that long ago that the island was pretty poor and I'm sure there are people who see all this building and modernization just what the island needs to stay relevant in the future. The folks that look for the St. Barts of recent past are getting older and travelling less so just throw us to the curb for the sake of the high rollers running the show now.

Thanks Carmen for the honest report!

----------


## waynek

I agree with many of the points raised by Carmen, but I think some of the issues are not getting worse on an absolute basis, but may be on a relative basis.  And complaining about the wind? Who do you blame for that?

Take smoking in restaurants.  I agree that this is abhorrent but is this really worse in SBH today then it was 25 years ago?  I doubt it, but pretty much everywhere else in the world (ex-Asia) smoking is not allowed indoors so we have all become hypersensitive to it.

And the editorials in PURE have been pretty consistent about overdevelopment and too much garbage for a while.  If you read the Vanity Fair article from 6+ years ago (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/01/st-barths-201101) it quotes JP Piter, the editor of PURE, complaining about too much garbage, construction, etc.  He has been writing about this in his editorials pretty much every year that I remember.

But Carmen is correct about prices getting out of control - I think Shellona is a prime example of this where burgers and drinks for lunch will set you back about 100 euros.

This, the poor service at restaurants and shops, the construction and the construction traffic are, IMHO, the biggest issues.

I am guessing that the camo dudes were part of the growing Russian contingent arriving in SBH as the billionaire oligarchs will want to have their guards around.

----------


## MIke R

Prices are laughable ...being on the other side  of that equation most of the year I can mostly laugh about it  ...but when I go there, I want no part of participating in that process ...it's just ridiculous ...30 Euros  for a ground chicken burger?....really???!...God bless them for getting that but they aren't getting that from me....thank God we truly prefer eating at the bungalow in privacy and peace and quiet ..I don't know what I'd do if anyone in my family actually wanted to participate in this gouging 

my father, who was poor most of his life, and didn't make it big until the latter  stages of his life,  always taught me having a lot of money is no excuse for being stupid wth your money....

----------


## cec1

> my father . . . always taught me having a lot of money is no excuse for being stupid wth your money....



Wise man . . . perhaps a generational thing?

----------


## stbartshopper

Wow- reading this thread gives us the chills! We have been going to the island for about 12 years. Doing that time our Villa rental price has remained the same- always have paid in dollars; our car rental price has remained the same per week in Euros; the smoking has continuously bothered us in restaurants but most of the time we are outside and the wind takes care of it; the service everywhere has been pretty consistently very good as well as the food; and the attitude of the store employees and those at the SBH airport have generally been upbeat and helpful (not true at SXM). Shellona prices are ridiculous but apparently the customers continue to flock there- we don't. The restaurant prices have always been high- that is SBH as we have always known it. We don't like the solicitation for tips when the bills say service compris- that makes us mad. There is virtually no crime to speak of but the walking, bicycling and sometimes driving is not safe and getting worse. We have seen more serious customs officers and gendarmes (particularly near the airport) than we have in the past but we understand why given what is going on around the world. We have never experienced bad smells, rotten food or puking chefs. We agree construction wise- the island seems to be 'full up' and yet more and more permits seem to be issued. For us though the cup is still on the fuller side rather than half or maybe more than half empty for some it seems.

----------


## Jim Kelly-Evans

> For us though the cup is still on the fuller side rather than half or maybe more than half empty for some it seems.

Yea, for us too. We do a lot of other travel during the year so SBH is kept in perspective. No place is a panacea but the island is beautiful and special and remains so for us in spite of the blemishes.

----------


## MIke R

It's still mostly better than the rest but the gap between it and the others , which used to be significant , is slowly but surely getting slimmer and slimmer ....

----------


## cec1

. . . agree with MikeR -- "the gap" is narrowing, which also can be said about the choices made in my life!  I find that as my energy & pursuit of "adventure" wane, I increasingly stick to places, people, & activities that are familiar, comfortable, & classic (a frame of reference that expands from time to time).  St. Barths continues to offer them in a comfortable orbit, & I don't regret that I'll probably never dance on a table at Le Ti.

----------


## amyb

Dennis, you make me laugh. I too was not cut out for tabletop dancing.

----------


## LindaP

Dennis; never say never !!!! Believe me, it's more fun than you may think  :Wink:

----------


## amyb

For starters, The trick is to be awake that late.

----------


## andynap

> Dennis; never say never !!!! Believe me, it's more fun than you may think



You're just a party girl.  :thumb up:

----------


## cec1

I'm sure that it's fun, Linda!  But, it requires a certain amount of coordination & balance that I lack.  And, as Amy notes, I probably couldn't stay awake long enough to get on a table!  I'll be happy, however, to cheer you in doing so!!!

----------


## stbartshopper

We have danced on tabletops on Sundays at Nikki and you don't have to stay up late to do so!

----------

