# St Barts Forums > St Barts Island Main Forum >  >  The increase in badly behaved American tourists in St Barths

## paestum

I've been traveling to St Barths for 30 years and I love the island. 
I have noticed a definite decline in the behavior of American tourists in the past several years... 
There are many more loud and poorly-behaved Americans than ever before.. some of these newcomers just don't seem to understand how to behave properly- that you lower your voice in a public setting, that it's not cool to get smashed and rowdy at top restaurants, that you don't chat up people across tables... you name it. Trashy behavior. 
Twice on my last visit, once at the Toiny and another time at Bonito, the staff had to intervene to ask the people to tone it down because they were disturbing other people (yelling, clapping, standing up drinking and doing "woo-hoos". I mean people, get with the program, this is not Cancun for the wealthy!) And both times the people were offended to be asked... (WTH??) 
I really get the sense there is a new crowd of people... and one that is increasingly entitled and disrespectful.
I don't know if this is generational or societal but it's disappointing- and super irritating. 
Have any of you noticed the same thing?

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## JEK

We haven’t been down since March of 2020, so not us! Seriously, for years we have noticed that behavior at certain places. One on a steep hill overlooking Gustavia and of course one in St. Jean on the water.  Even in the rarefied air of Le Toiny we have observed skinny dipping after dinner by a poolside table. I may have pictures  :cool:

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## PIRATE40

> We havent been down since March of 2020, so not us! Seriously, for years we have noticed that behavior at certain places. One on a steep hill overlooking Gustavia and of course one in St. Jean on the water.  Even in the rarefied air of Le Toiny we have observed skinny dipping after dinner by a poolside table. I may have pictures



.Also.......we have not been there for two years......was not us...we tend to enjoy the view from the villa and try to fit in as much as possible.....we will see what June brings...Pictures from a Villa in Lorient will probably point to a known "person"

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## JEK

Also, we have seen no shirts at dinner and reports of sandy feet washing in the restaurant WC.

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## KevinS

The OP is not wrong.  Ive been seeing an increase in that entitled party atmosphere behavior for awhile. 

There are a number of places where I choose not to go, and the behavior of their typical clientele are one of the reasons.  Their scene is not my scene, and vice versa. I wouldnt say that loud and annoying American tourists are the only clientele that I avoid though.  There are plenty of similarly loud and annoying tourists from other countries.  

What I do try to avoid is restaurants which actively attract those clients.

There others here who seek those places out.

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## davesmom

Bonsoir!  Two visits ago and before Irma, our evening was ruined at Tamarin by a group of entitled, loud tourists trying to one up one another. We have never been back for that reason. It gets a bit loud at Nikki but we totally expect that on Sundays and it is a known party atmosphere, which we like. It is way calmed down from the past. At a fine restaurant, it is totally out of place. Not sure what the managers will tolerate. It is sad that you have to tell people how to behave in public these days. Ill be interested to see if this week is noticeably different than February and April/May of the past.

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## cec1

> The OP is not wrong.  I’ve been seeing an increase in that entitled “party atmosphere” behavior for awhile. 
> 
> There are a number of places where I choose not to go, and the behavior of their typical clientele are one of the reasons.  Their scene is not my scene, and vice versa. I wouldn’t say that loud and annoying American tourists are the only clientele that I avoid though.  There are plenty of similarly loud and annoying tourists from other countries.  
> 
> What I do try to avoid is restaurants which actively attract those clients.
> 
> There others here who seek those places out.



The most offensive, in my experience, of the bad behavior that is described occurred a number of years ago when Obama still was President. I was at L’Esprit, & there was a table of six young (late 30s) Americans near me who — clearly grossly inebriated — were loudly describing their negative feelings about the President, including appallingly, incredibly vulgar (obviously irrelevant) commentary about Mrs. Obama.

At a loss as to how to respond, I was very proud for the restaurant when its host went up to the table & said, “Your comments, so loud, are vulgar & unacceptable, whatever your politics . . . if you want to stay, change the subject. If not, we have to ask you to leave.” The guests stayed . . . quiet conversation . . . and left as soon as they could eat & crawl out of the restaurant.

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## KevinS

DM, we chose to skip Tamarin on this trip.

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## davesmom

> DM, we chose to skip Tamarin on this trip.



so sorry we are missing you this time. It is not on my list but will report back on the others. We are in SD airport now, waiting to come!

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## Eve

Perfect commentary. We took adults kids and grandkids this time and I totally get it. It is indeed a generational thing, because someone forgot to teach anyone how to act in these places. Not us, dare I stay. I commented many times in restaurants and got lots of tsks and eye rolls. I am the evil stepmother after all. By the end I was avoiding going out with them at all. They just dont get it.

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## amyb

DM and DD..safe travels. 

This year we tried Tamarin. So far they have been delightful and delicious dining experiences and we for sure be going back. Their are partners, but mostly gorgeous women in gorgeous clothes and guys in whatever. New chef is a good chef. 

Alert. Most meats are for two so do not faint when reading the carte!

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## Amery

> DM, we chose to skip Tamarin on this trip.



To Kevins point we have not dined at Tamarin as much in past couple of years partly for this reason (loud guests) and partly bc the food had become increasingly expensive and uneven. A thanksgiving dinner a few years ago was ruined for a friend and her family bc they were seated next to a very loud group. We were there the same night and were fortunately seated in another part of the garden. She and her (well behaved) adult children left the table and had dessert in the garden to escape the noise. We have stopped going there for Thanksgiving mainly because it is much too busy and the service and quality suffered. On a brighter note, a friend who worked for years for a villa agency statesidewas here visiting for the first time since 2018 a few weeks ago and we took her to Tamarin.  It was a wed evening so not too busy. We had a peaceful table in the garden, service and food were excellent.  Overall I have definitely noticed an increase in US visitors who tend to forget there are others around them also on vacation. (Generational? Societal? Social media? All of the above?) My adult daughters roll their eyes at me at times (but theyre having fun, theyre on vacation. Yes, so are we ; ) and know better than to ever behave similarly. Sadly, its not only in restaurants, even on beaches. We were on Gouverneur yesterday and there was a large villa setup for 8 guests next to us. They spread out, almost in a circle at one point and one woman picked up and moved her beach chair directly in front of us on waters edge blocking our view. Completely oblivious. I thought perhaps after a few minutes she would realize people are generally respectful on beaches and dont sit directly in front of others. We waited a bit, she didn't move so we did. The sense of entitlement and lack of consideration for others continues to amaze me. However, there are ways around it and the beauty, peace and kindness of St Barth still exist. They might be a bit harder to find but are very much here, keeping me hopeful and always planning a next trip!

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## amyb

Amery, I am seeing what you saw. Still, St Barths is like no other island destination  for me. As I  often say and even have engraved on my island map bracelet from Les Artisans, AHHH, ST BARTHS!

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## Amery

> Amery, I am seeing what you saw. Still, St Barths is like no other island destination  for for me. As I  often say and even have engraved on my island map bracelet from Les Artisans, AHHH, ST BARTHS!



Agreed! Why the next trip is already planned💙

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## amyb

Atta girl! See you in the spring.

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## 24loar

We were down there about three weeks ago, our tenth trip, and did not see an abundance of Ugly Americans. In L'Isola a group of 4 were seated next to us; three were nicely dressed, but the old guy (?$$$) had on a badly worn undershirt, crummy slacks and old Chuck Taylor's without socks. Sat right next to me, spoke pleasantly and caused no turmoil. I guess if you have enough cash you can play the lovable eccentric. At Tamarin we were greeted warmly, offered a choice of excellent tables, and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. At Santa Fe the potential disaster of parking was handled efficiently by a valet, we were welcomed by David (kind enough to say he remembered us from two years before) and seated close to a table occupied by the couple whose photo graces the thread above this one. That was what we come to SBH for: a little eccentricity, great food and scenery, and very nice people. We will be back.

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## NancySC

Gouvernour is an expansive beach, one of our favorites for many years of visits.  I got a chuckle over the comment about the woman moving her beach chair in front of someone & blocking your view.   Here's why, years ago on a ladies trip on a private yacht owned by one of the group, we were anchored probably a mile or more from a beach that was miles long off of Cat Island in the Bahamas.  That day we were the only walkers & in front of the small beach cottage rental colony, the owner dashing onto the lonely long beach chose me walking behind the others to pick on  & interrogate...who were these people, who owned the boat, she'd better clean up after the dog. Really harassing me, yet I answered none of his questions & kept walking, we later learned his name was Ned, who became legendary as Nasty Ned.  My point is, we were the only boat, at 105' long so far off the beach that we were a mere blip on the horizon.  Yes, we cleaned up after the dog, the captain moved the boat & later trips to that part of Cat Island never again marred the view for Nasty Ned.  
So I hope you won't let the disturbance that it was for you at Gouverneur be the only memory of an otherwise happy trip.

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## Amery

> Gouvernour is an expansive beach, one of our favorites for many years of visits.  I got a chuckle over the comment about the woman moving her beach chair in front of someone & blocking your view.   Here's why, years ago on a ladies trip on a private yacht owned by one of the group, we were anchored probably a mile or more from a beach that was miles long off of Cat Island in the Bahamas.  That day we were the only walkers & in front of the small beach cottage rental colony, the owner dashing onto the lonely long beach chose me walking behind the others to pick on  & interrogate...who were these people, who owned the boat, she'd better clean up after the dog. Really harassing me, yet I answered none of his questions & kept walking, we later learned his name was Ned, who became legendary as Nasty Ned.  My point is, we were the only boat, at 105' long so far off the beach that we were a mere blip on the horizon.  Yes, we cleaned up after the dog, the captain moved the boat & later trips to that part of Cat Island never again marred the view for Nasty Ned.  
> So I hope you won't let the disturbance that it was for you at Gouverneur be the only memory of an otherwise happy trip.



Sadly Gouverneur is not currently as expansive as it usually is so there is much less beach. And that memory was  slight in  what has been a beautiful trip! My post was in reference to the earlier post about the change of visitors. I was only reporting current happenings. Gouverneur is always a favorite! During busy timesgiven the current beach erosionyou might have to slightly adjust your expectations and/ or your spot☀️

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## LongIslander

Okay so as one of the younger members of the forum maybe by only a few years  :Wink:  (and an American), I can say that over the last 7 years of visiting, I have noticed the changes but I do not think it can be pinned on just drunk Americans.  The island has seemingly been embracing the debauchery via the opening of ever more restaurants that cater to the clientele that want to dance on tables and get sparklers sent over with their overpriced champagne.  If half the restaurants on any island offer loud DJs during late dinner service and bottle service to your dinner table, this is what you'll get.  When I first started coming, it was pretty much only Nikki, Bagatelle, and Le Ti (which in my opinion can't really be compared to the other two) that would roughly fit this category and if you sought them out you knew what you were getting into, but now every new restaurant seemingly turns into a club after 10/11pm.

The worst I've witnessed was a group of drunk eastern Europeans fresh off a yacht at L'Isola who were screaming at their table and occasionally in English using profanity.  The waiters kept bringing over magnum champagne even as the primary guest literally passed out in his food (this was at 9pm).  He eventually tried to fight my father just for sitting next to him and fell out of his chair.  Even after witnessing this, staff continued to serve drinks to the table.  Not until he knocked down a smaller girl from the table next door on his way to the bathroom, which caused the entire section of the restaurant to demand they be kicked out, did the waiter and manager force them out.  Too often, the overpriced bottles weigh more in the mind of a restaurant owner than does the experience of the other 80% of his likely repeat customers.  We haven't been back there since.

Overall I've seen it from the British too, but yes there are a high number of Americans on the island given the proximity and they are often involved but until the scene changes, the restaurants themselves will continue to coax anyone with money and a penchant for fun into making dinner into a "show."

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## tgdallas

Longislander, I’ve been trying to
put into words my opinion on this but I think I’ll just say that the first paragraph of your post is exactly what I wanted to say. You said it much more politely than I would have. Lol. 

I follow a lot of St. Barth accounts on Facebook and Instagram and remark to my husband quite frequently, “is this St. Barth or Ibiza?” 

Nevertheless, we arrive on Tuesday and I am so ready! 9th trip, but the first time we’ve been in December. 

ted

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## NancySC

> Sadly Gouverneur is not currently as expansive as it usually is so there is much less beach. And that memory was  slight in  what has been a beautiful trip! My post was in reference to the earlier post about the change of visitors. I was only reporting current happenings. Gouverneur is always a favorite! During busy times—given the current beach erosion—you might have to slightly adjust your expectations and/ or your spot☀️



Amery, so glad that happening on the beach hasn't changed your opinion of SBH visit !  
a funny aside to my Nasty Ned...while in Italy this summer I saw the captain of the boat I was on, talking about Nasty Ned during dinner, I was told that NN probably was in the 'running business' in the Bahamas, so no wonder he gave me the 3rd degree, perhaps thinking whoever was on the boat might be cutting in oh his 'business.'

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## paestum

> DM, we chose to skip Tamarin on this trip.



You reminded me. I used to LOVE Tamarin but we had the same experience on our last visit. Loud and obnoxious tourists.

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## Eve

We only go to Tamarin for a drink and out. 
But it is concerning how loud Santa Fe was

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## paestum

I by no means meant to suggest all American tourists are being  obnoxious.. I have seen loud Russians too and the Brits, well... they  are notorious as well when they are trashed. 

But being  realistic, 90% of tourism to St Barths is American and in almost all  cases it's been Americans of all ages... not just the young ones... that  I have seen being out of line. 

They generally strike me as  first timers, people with money but not terribly sophisticated... and  definitely not brought up by the likes of my parents (I would have had  the belt and been grounded for weeks if I behaved poorly in any public  setting...ok I'm a kid of the '70s... the belts were definitely still a  thing! LOL) But what is acceptable behavior to some...totally baffles  me. 

At Bonito it was so bad the last time I was there. A  Frenchman at the next table next to the loud group of 4 was with his  wife.. he got up and put his hand on the shoulder (very kindly) and told  the loudest at the next table if he could please lower his voice, that  this was a special place and that he wanted to enjoy his anniversary  week dinner. 

They calmed down for about 10 minutes and then got  louder. And louder. And then started yelling over to the next table  asking people where they were from. I was flabbergasted. 

Then  the French guy stared at him and made a downward motion with his hand  (not obnoxiously, just like "please lower your voice") to which the boor  yelled "F&CK YOU, you A$$...E" 

It was then that the restaurant finally intervened and asked them to calm down or leave. 

They  put up a fight and made it seem like everyone was making such a big  deal about nothing... toned it down and then left sneering. 
I live  in France so perhaps I am a little more sensitive to louder talking than  most (North Americans generally do speak more loudly... it's a pet  peeve of the French and I really notice it when I am back in the US).  But St Barths was always different until recently. 

I won't  intervene with people like that... because it could end up like it did  for the Frenchman but I sure as heck make a comment to the managers...  which usually flies under the radar because I speak French fluently. 

Kevin, you are right. I too have started to avoid certain places.  But  excuse my French, it pisses me off to no end to have to adapt to the  boors. I mean, we have 1-2 weeks there if you're lucky and this kind of  stuff is nonsense. The last time friend was so annoyed she didn't  want to go out anymore. And doesn't want to go out this time as a result.. 

Fortunately  it's not everywhere... I'll be back the first half of January and hope  to have a better experience this time around :-)

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## Cwater

I have been following this thread.  I must say I am aghast at the experiences listed.  Thankfully, Cheryl & I have been traveling to paradise since 1987.  Besides watching the fun at Nikki from the water we have not had anything close to the experiences listed.  I will keep fingers crossed that our good luck continues.  See you on the beach

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## JEK

Another thought on these disparate views is the time one dines. Very early you may not experience the alcohol fueled diatribes that a 21:00 table exhibits. Just a thought.

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## bkeats

Did longislander’s post get removed?

I am only getting a chance to respond now but that post echos my thoughts. 

I know I can be part of a loud boorish group but that’s usually when we’re out for a night to party and hitting the clubs in NYC. But when we’re on the fair isle I’m looking to get away for some r&r with good food mixed in. Not looking for a lot of noise. 

The reputation of the island is very different from that for most people. It’s viewed by many as a bucket list party destination. I think most people who visit will come once and that’s it. It’s a big deal for them. They save and plan and damn it when they’re there they’re going to have a good time. The simple fact that so many of the restaurants have become more expensive and quasi club like reinforces that perception. On one trip my wife and I were having lunch and there was this table of more than a dozen Americans in their 30s. We found out they were a group from college and they were on a reunion trip and it was clear they were there to paaartie! Made for an unpleasant lunch. On our last trip just a few weeks ago, we were having lunch at Le Repaire. Another large table. This time Russians I believe. Similarly they were there to have a good time. Loud and obnoxious. However those traits aren’t the sole province of any nationality. The challenge is that the more popular the island becomes, the more we will see of this. The island wants the money.

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## JEK

> Did longislander’s post get removed?



I haven’t heard of any post deleting recently, but perhaps I am out of the loop.

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## andynap

I can see Longislander’s post

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## JEK

> I can see Longislander’s post



Yep. Number Nineteen

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## cassidain

> But being  realistic, 90% of tourism to St Barths is American



According to the IEDOM (last breakdown I found was a few years ago) 60% of visitors were North American, 27% were European (especially Russian), and 13% were South American (especially Brazilian).

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## Dennis

> According to the IEDOM (last breakdown I found was a few years ago) 60% of visitors were North American, 27% were European (especially Russian), and 13% were South American (especially Brazilian).



Interesting. 
I thought the 90% number sounded high. 
But I wouldn’t have guessed 60%.

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## alachick

Oh, Cat Island, wonderful memories of a flight from Nassau to San Salvadore thirty years ago.  A stop on Cat Island with more chickens on board than people.

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## elgreaux

We had a lovely quiet dinner at Eddy's tonight - it was full, no loud people, no boorish behavior.. as has been noted here, you get the kind of experience the restaurant itself wants you to have and cultivates as its image.

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## Dennis

> We had a lovely quiet dinner at Eddy's tonight - it was full, no loud people, no boorish behavior.. as has been noted here, you get the kind of experience the restaurant itself wants you to have and cultivates as its image.



Funny. This whole thread I’ve been thinking about places where I can’t imagine this disruptive behavior happening and the place that kept coming back to me was Eddy’s.

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## cassidain

> Interesting. 
> I thought the 90% number sounded high. 
> But I wouldnt have guessed 60%.



the previous numbers were from 2015. these are from 2019. 55% North Americans (50% USA). 30% European (25% French). 12% Latin America. 4% Central/South America.

En 2019, les évolutions observées par le Comité territorial du tourisme de Saint- Barthélemy (CTTSB) confirment les tendances établies en 2015. Le marché majeur reste la clientèle en provenance dAmérique du Nord, regroupant environ 55 % des touristes, au total 50 % sont originaires des États-Unis. La part de la clientèle européenne sélève à plus de 30 %, dans le détail 25 % arrivent de la France et 7 % dEurope de lOuest. La clientèle originaire dAmérique latine et des îles de la Caraïbe (Grandes Antilles et Petites Antilles) regroupe 12 % des touristes, en premier lieu desquels se positionnent les Antilles françaises et Porto Rico (8 %) puis lAmérique centrale et du Sud (4 %) avec une majorité de Brésiliens (2,5 %). Les origines des visiteurs d e me u re nt t rè s d iv e rs if ié e s e t t é mo ig ne nt d e la no t o r iét é d e la d e st i nat io n à l é c he l le internationale. Entre 2014 et 2019, lîle a ainsi accueilli des touristes de plus de 120 nationalités.

https://www.iedom.fr/IMG/pdf/iedom-r...barthelemy.pdf

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## davesmom

Everyone so far on the island has been well behaved. We went by on the road coming down the hill past Le Papillon Ivre last night around 10 and opposite the restaurant was a bar that was hopping but nobody looked trashed. The night was relatively young, however. Le G is most def not party centralmaybe I should start something :Wink:

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## KevinS

> Everyone so far on the island has been well behaved. We went by on the road coming down the hill past Le Papillon Ivre last night around 10 and opposite the restaurant was a bar that was hopping but nobody looked trashed.



That bar is Le Glacier. You can get an inexpensive lunch/dinner there (with a side of secondhand Marlboro Red), and place a PMU bet on the French ponies.

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## davesmom

> That bar is Le Glacier. You can get an inexpensive lunch/dinner there (with a side of secondhand Marlboro Red), and place a PMU bet on the French ponies.



Non, merci à la fumée. Ça n’existe plus en Californie.  Really, we were so surprised to see people still smoking, but chacun à son goût. It just is not à mon goût. Je prendrai un joli rosé, merci, de Saint-Tropez.

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## bkeats

Weird. I see the post now but for some reason I didn’t before.

50% American sounds right. 90% never seemed possible to me. Especially considering the number of places that have only French cable.

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## Cwater

> Another thought on these disparate views is the time one dines. Very early you may not experience the alcohol fueled diatribes that a 21:00 table exhibits. Just a thought.



Great point.  Cheryl & I like to eat @ 7.30.

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## elgreaux

> That bar is Le Glacier. You can get an inexpensive lunch/dinner there (with a side of secondhand Marlboro Red), and place a PMU bet on the French ponies.



They also have good pizza you can take out...

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## cassidain

> Great point.  Cheryl & I like to eat @ 7.30.



for those of us up with la volaille, 7:30 plenty late

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## debd

> Funny. This whole thread I’ve been thinking about places where I can’t imagine this disruptive behavior happening and the place that kept coming back to me was Eddy’s.



Here.  Here.

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## debd

> They also have good pizza you can take out...



Good to know.

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## Eve

> Also, we have seen no shirts at dinner and reports of sandy feet washing in the restaurant WC.



we recounted that event at dinner

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## davesmom

Perfect behavior from everyone at Nikki today..oh, for the good old days when it was really crazy!  Most fun you can have on a Sunday…still!  Everyone including the patrons were super nice!  We were so lucky to get our former waiter, whom we know!  We always share our Champagne with him..rosé, bien sûr!

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## Happycamper

I think Longislander in on the right track.  If some restaurants promote wild behavior as a feature, then you'll get more wild people coming to the island and more party people will mistake a quiet restaurant for a dance on the table one. 

I think the loud show-off type is not new and is not native to only certain countries.  Paris has complained about loud aggressive Americans since before Hemmingway and Fitzgerald sullied their cafes a hundred years ago, but American's coined the nickname Eurotrash for the exact same behaviors when visited on our shores.

It will be hard to resist the group that buys $1000 bottles of champagne.  I hope they stay up late, sleep in late and dine out late.  Then I can avoid much overlap.

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## NancySC

> Oh, Cat Island, wonderful memories of a flight from Nassau to San Salvadore thirty years ago.  A stop on Cat Island with more chickens on board than people.



I was very fortunate on my trips there with the ladies to be on NetJets, so no chickens !

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