# The SBHonline Community Daily > Books, Movies, and TV >  >  I don't read much on vacation because I read about a bejillion pages at home.  But if I did, this would make my  Short List

## Island Visitor

I don't read much on vacation because I read about a bejillion pages at home.  But if I did, this would make my 

Short List

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## rivertrash

WTF?

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## KevinS

The website didn't pass the porn filter at the office.

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## JEK

A romantic guy who reads romance novellas. AXA must have had a big effect on him :-)

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## Island Visitor

Actually, I did not read it but skimmed it at the store.

Yes, it is a bit - oh what is the word - frisky...

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## Dennis

What...no "The Assault on Reason"?

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## andynap

> What...no "The Assault on Reason"?



LMAO

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## Island Visitor

Why spend $4.95 on a book that would take me a couple of days to read when I can come here and witness an assault on reason firsthand for free?

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## andynap

> Why spend $4.95 on a book that would take me a couple of days to read when I can come here and witness an assault on reason firsthand for free?



Smile when you say that. LOL

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## Dennis

> Why spend $4.95 on a book that would take me a couple of days to read when I can come here and witness an assault on reason firsthand for free?



That assumes there is "reason" here at all...

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## Island Visitor

> Why spend $4.95 on a book that would take me a couple of days to read when I can come here and witness an assault on reason firsthand for free? 
> 
> 
> 
> Smile when you say that. LOL




I AM smiling....

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## Dennis

Without him there would be no "us"...

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## Island Visitor

There are over 1100 weather stations in the United States that have been faithfully recording the temperature for over a century.  It is these stations that the government uses to document the rise in average temperature over the last 100 years.

There are, of course, STRICT guidelines as to where these stations are placed.  They cant be near a concrete pad or electrical devices or air exhausts, etc.  And none of these things were ever placed near any of that 100 years ago when they started recording data.

Alas, no one, not government or private, has ever toured all 1100 stations.  So there is now a fellow who is doing so and documenting what he is seeing.  So far, he has made it to 50 stations.  Here are some of the stations documenting the rise in temperature over the last century.

I see the chance for a bit of imprecision here...

I kid you not.  This stuff is real.

(Dont you love the jetblast in one of those photos?)

The inconvenient truth in all this is that only MORONS would trust the data out of these weather stations.

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## andynap

And only a moron would believe there is no warming:

"More than melting is at work in Greenland 
By Doug Struck
Washington Post

DOUG STRUCK / Washington Post 
Enough of Greenland's Jakobshavn Glacier tumbles into the sea every day to supply 20 to 30 New York Cities with water. And if all the Arctic island's ice were to melt, seas around the world would rise by 23 feet, threatening all of Earth's coastal cities. 

JAKOBSHAVN GLACIER, Greenland - If South Jersey - or, for that matter, Manhattan - floods, it may start here, on an ice field that stretches in frozen silence to every horizon. 
Global warming is working away at the Greenland ice cap. The frozen interior of the Arctic island is shedding ice much faster than simple melting should explain. And George Tsoflias wants to know why. 

A sharp wind knifes at the hands of the scientist as he struggles - gloves off in the bitter cold - to make adjustments to his radar. His instrument is strapped to an unwieldy wooden sled adorned with batteries and cables and two sets of flat antennas that extend like flapping wings over the snow. He hopes it will peer through the ice to the ground two miles below. 

Dozens of scientific teams are scattered over the frigid Greenland snowscape, sent by the National Science Foundation, NASA and universities around the world. They are drilling the ice to collect samples, flying over it with radar and lasers, listening to its creaks and groans with seismometers, fitting it with GPS receivers to measure its pace, and photographing it as it slides to the sea and breaks into icebergs. 

Their quest is crucial: If all the ice on Greenland were to melt, the seas around the world would rise by 23 feet, submerging countless coastal cities. A modest three-foot rise would endanger 70 million people.

"Greenland has the potential to put a lot of water, a lot of ice, into the sea," said Tsoflias, a researcher from the University of Kansas. 

Greenland's ice cap contains 800 trillion gallons of water and several outlet glaciers, huge rivers of ice that act as faucets from the ice cap. Those faucets are running faster. The Jakobshavn Glacier, where Tsoflias works, has doubled its speed in five years and every day dumps enough ice into the sea to supply enough water for 20 to 30 New York Cities. 

From the air, the Jakobshavn looks like a still life of a river in white, rippled with frozen waves, sinuous as it moves toward the ocean at a rate of 135 feet per day. 

"It's the fastest-flowing glacier in the world," said Don Voigt, huddled in a tent a few yards from Tsoflias' people on a 3-degree day, trying to warm up with hot chocolate and the tiny blue flame of a camp stove.

"The question is, why is it flowing so fast?" 

Voigt, 53, a white-bearded veteran of 14 field seasons in Greenland and Antarctica, leads a team from Pennsylvania State University that is mapping the bottom of the ice by setting off explosives and recording the seismic reverberations. 

They will live out here for a month, sleeping in tents in the brutal weather, preparing explosive charges with cold-numbed hands and wiping snow off their instruments. They give nicknames to their jobs: "shooter," "recorder" and "potato planter" - the one who shoves the small charges into the snow. 

Scientists have a working theory for the glacier's speed. The Jakobshavn is churning toward the sea over land that forms a trough deeper than the Grand Canyon. As higher temperatures melt ice and snow on the surface, the water is pouring down through crevasses to the rock. There, it is acting as a lubricant, lifting and carrying the glacier faster toward the sea. 

"It's like a slick griddle," Paul Winberry, 28, a geophysics doctoral student at Penn State, said as he tested a steam drill to plant explosives in the ice cap, a perfectly scribed white line against the blue sky. "As soon as that water hits the bottom of the ice sheet, the ice sheet hits the gas and starts to accelerate."

As ice on glaciers moves over rock, it snags and lurches. That creates "icequakes," measurable in the same way as earthquakes. In 1993, there were seven such quakes in Greenland. In 2005, as the ice accelerated, there were 32. 

"For a long time it was thought that a change of climate could affect the ice sheets very slowly," said Meredith Nettles, a scientist from Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University who monitors a large glacier in eastern Greenland. "Now we believe the Greenland ice can respond to changes in climate much more quickly than anyone thought."

In geologic terms, "quickly" still means decades or centuries. But some scientists say the Earth is approaching a point when the process cannot be stopped.

Only in recent years did scientists conclude that sea levels were rising twice as fast as they had estimated, said H. Jay Zwally, a senior research scientist from NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. 

"We are seeing things taking place in the ice now that weren't expected, that five years ago we didn't even know about," said Zwally, who will spend his 14th summer on the Greenland ice cap this year. "I think eventually Greenland will reach a point that the change is irreversible in the current climate."

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## Island Visitor

Andy:

Even as late as a couple of years ago, we were being told that "every respected scientist" would have agreed with the link you just provided.

Now we have folks at NASA, thousands of "climatologists" of renown (including the so-called father of climatology) who are not only questioning the whole scam but are recanting.

Long story short is that there is a rapidly growing tide of scientists who are rethinking the whole thing.

As for ice sheets melting and therefore proving the coming catastrophe, I say just go out on one of the great lakes (former ice sheets) this weekend and have a picnic.

Happy boating.

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## andynap

Ben- I think you should reread the quotes by the ahowells at NASA- the chief recanted-he doesn't question the warming-he just doesn't think we can do anything about it. And if you are referring to "government scientists" I wouldn't believe any of them anyway- they are all afraid to say anything against the current administration lest they get fired and skewered as incompetent just like the geniuses at the justice department did .

AND that story was from yesterday.

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## Island Visitor

Andy:  I am not talking about any one story or any one author.  My point is that the mantra "All scientists agree" is not correct.

And remember that one of the reasons that "everyone accepts that a trend of global warming exists" is because of the landbased weather stations that have documented it.

Alas, many of those stations have been over-run by industrialization since they were placed decades ago.

So, to answer the question in forthright matter:

Do I think that the stations being over-run by industrial parks, airports, etc are indeed registering higher temperatures than they used to register before the were engulfed by concrete and exhaust fans?

Yes.  I do believe that.

I guess that makes me A Believer.

Yippie!   Debate over.

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## andynap

Sounds like O'Reilly to me- you make something up, yell real loud, don't listen and you win.

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## Island Visitor

Andy:

I did not make up the photos I linked.  

Scientific conclusions are only as good as the data that goes into them - if even that good.

In this case, we have been told that the bulk of science proves global warming.  Yet apparently NO ONE has checked all the data.  They have fondled computer models, tweeked equations, selected satellite images they like, etc.  

But no one has actually looked at how the data were collected.  And that is THE critical component of any scientific endeavor.  If the data are no good, neither is any conclusion drawn from them.

If you were to submit a paper to a peer-reviewed medical journal talking about the fever-reducing effects of your new medication and then show us pictures of temperatures being taken with the imprecision that the official government temperatures I linked are taken, the article would be flatly refused and you would be rebuked.

But, since Bill O'Reilly - who I never watch - isn't here, let me ask YOU the question:

Are YOU happy making conclusions about average temperatures with hot air exhaust vents blowing on the thermometers, with thermometers set up next to trash fires, behind jet exhaust, over concrete, in front of car radiators, on hot shingled roofs, etc, etc?

THESE are the data that prove global warming.  These are the temperature measurements that "scientists" cite as their proof.

Are you satisfied with this data?  Would you take data gathered in this fashion into a courtroom in front of a serious judge?

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## andynap

IV- the article I posted was about scientists in Greenland on their hands and knees trying to measure the rate of ice melt and what to do to stop it. No machines next to airports or such. If you don't believe you don't believe. Period.

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## Island Visitor

Andy:

There are other scientists who say other ice bodies on earth are actually getting thicker.  In other words, the arguements are conflicting.  Fascinating to be sure and I would most certainly be alarmed if Greenland disappeared.  But what is happening in Greenland is, allegedly, being balanced by other ice sheets expanding.  Dont know.

Having acknowledged that, I still have to deal with the thought that the temperature graphs we have been shown as alarming evidence of global warming may be misleading at best.  

The sad part of all this is that if there are a lot more weather stations with pictures like the ones I linked today, then you can throw 100 years of temperature data out the window.

What is happening in Greenland?  Dont know.  But it bears watching.  Is it being balanced by thickening sheets elsewhere?  Dont know.  But some people maintain it is.

Beyond that, it appears that our temperature data may be worthless.

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## andynap

I got it- go outside with a thermometer and measure the temperature. VOILA. You got it. If it's hot it's hot. If it's not it's not.

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## Island Visitor

> I got it- go outside with a thermometer and measure the temperature. VOILA. You got it. If it's hot it's hot. If it's not it's not.



Quite nice here today, although rain expected over the next two days...

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## Dennis

> I got it- go outside with a thermometer and measure the temperature. VOILA. You got it. If it's hot it's hot. If it's not it's not. 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite nice here today, although rain expected over the next two days...



Holy cow! It rained here yesterday...GLOBAL FLOODING!!!!

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## Island Visitor

> I got it- go outside with a thermometer and measure the temperature. VOILA. You got it. If it's hot it's hot. If it's not it's not. 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite nice here today, although rain expected over the next two days... 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy cow! It rained here yesterday...GLOBAL FLOODING!!!!



Really?  I HATE it when that happens!

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## Dennis

> I got it- go outside with a thermometer and measure the temperature. VOILA. You got it. If it's hot it's hot. If it's not it's not. 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite nice here today, although rain expected over the next two days... 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy cow! It rained here yesterday...GLOBAL FLOODING!!!! 
> ...



Left wing, liberal Hollywood plot by these guys:

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## Island Visitor

It's your money.  Spend it however you choose or on whatever movies you choose.

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